I’ve been asked what I think about Barack Obama (and Hillary Clinton) selecting Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr. as his Ambassador to China. It’s an interesting choice on so many levels. On one level, you have Hugo Chavez, Daniel Ortega and Raul Castro who endorsed Obama followed by Obama endorsing Jon Huntsman. Says something about Huntsman, doesn’t it?
On another, China’s proclivity for rampant, state-mandated abortion and other human rights violations coupled with Mr. Obama’s virulent pro-abortion stance should provide a serious Mormon plenty of opportunities for serious moral angst. Time will tell how seriously we should take Mr. Huntsman’s religious inclinations.
For Utah Republicans, I think this can only be a good thing. It temporarily moves off the Republican political chess board a faux conservative who would have only caused John-McCain-like problems down the road. I have visions of Huntsman pulling an Arlen Specter in four or five years. He really isn’t a Republican, folks. I think that’s the real takeaway from this appointment.
{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
I agree with you. However, I think he is a good fit for China. He speaks Mandarin, spent 2 years on a mission there – where he met common people, not the politicians, ate their food, lived in their humble places, and has 7 children 2 of whom are adopted – one from China, and one from India. I agree he is more like a dem than a republican.
He will cause a stir in China with the size of his family and that’s for the good.
His father is the best. Wish he was young enough to run. I guess, as parents, we all have crosses to bear.
I’m afraid Huntsman represents the new LDS–one that has drifted far from its origins and principles in order to be a religion of man, and not a religion of God.
Why did Huntsman adopt a Chinese kid and then an Indian one?
There are lots of white kids who need to be adopted.
Is he just practicing the latest Hollywood trend–adopting kids different from you as accessories or pets?
Huntsman is not the “new LDS,” thanks anyway, Bob. There were lots of that variety in the time of Joseph Smith. Some strains of pseudo-LDS in the 1840s became part of the mobs that murdered Joseph and his brother Hyrum. Some just sat on their hands.
Whatever Huntsman is or is not, he will not be missed by real, current LDS people in Utah — or anywhere else. He has found his true home in the arms of Obama.
Choosing my words carefully, now, it seems to me that any church that tries to be relevant to whatever is happening right now in society and which has convenient “revelations” to keep up with the fads and trends of humans, even when these revelations reverse eternal revelations of the founder of the church, is serving man and not God.
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young didn’t write on the wind. They wrote for all times about certain foundational principles. They didn’t try to be loved by the rest of humanity that didn’t believe what they wrote. They stayed true to their beliefs.
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young wrote for all time — just as Moses did. Laws that prevailed in the desert for 40 years were not necessarily those that prevailed even during the time of the judges.
The point in having a living prophet is to allow God (you WILL allow Him to reveal what He will reveal, I hope?) to make revelations current to the needs of the time.
The Church does not “keep up with fads and trends,” it deals with the world’s fads and trends — in keeping with the Lord’s will. You think the Church “goes with the flow,” do you? How much do you think the current prophets of the LDS Church allowed the apoplectic opponents of protecting marriage for a man and woman to influence their support for last fall’s ballot propositions? When baseball bats were swung at windows in our homes, and our cars and church buildings were spray painted, several temples were under siege, and members who had donated lost jobs, accounts, and incomes?
Where were you when fellow students spit on my children’s heads while they waited to get on the school bus — because they were LDS? When those same school bus riders shouted obscenities at them for the entire bus ride to our home? When the kids sitting behind her on the bus, or in class, tied my daughter’s hair in knots? When the persecution was so bad that they would thank the Lord in family prayer on nights they had NOT been harassed — for being Mormon? When I made all of my daughters’ dresses and skirts so they would be a modest length?
If you are among the FLDS, you should think twice about attacking LDS. They are among your greatest supporters, because we know what it means to be persecuted, and because we believe, more than most, in the Constitution.
I am neither LDS nor FLDS. I also worked for California’s Prop. 8–held signs, walked precincts, etc.
BTW, I suspect the reason the modern LDS is opposed to gay marriage is because its approval may open the door to polygamy. With polygamy, may come a movement to restore the LDS (which, in my opinion, needs it) to its older orthodox positions as set forth by Joseph Smith.
As to modern prophets changing original teachings, I suggest you read George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” for some clues about this. Be aware of false prophets.
Joseph Smith would be arrested by good LDS members if he showed up in Temple Square today. That tells me something. Sorry you don’t get it.
I don’t get it. What are you talking about? Why do you think Joseph Smith would be arrested?
Also, Bob, just because some members try to “fit in” with the world, doesn’t mean that the prophets are teaching members to try to fit in.
I realize you’re referring, at least in part, to African-American’s being allowed to have the priesthood. The Lord does what he does on his time-table. I won’t try to explain it for him.
But I will tell you that if you were to look carefully at those who take the LDS religion most seriously, you would see them moving away from the world and not towards it.
God chooses prophets. Men choose leaders. If men choose leaders–who they may call prophets as an honorary title–and if these leaders change earlier prophecies by one who claims to be chosen by God (think Joseph Smith) to be acceptable to the fads and trends of whatever age they live in, I think their followers should be suspicious.
True Mormons follow Joseph Smith. His words haven’t changed. If they were true then, they are true now.
Treating Joseph Smith’s teachings in a cafeteria style to please men, is a serious error. I repeat. I think the LDS needs restoration.
Bob, you seem to have designated yourself as a prophet to proclaim how “false” Mormonism is. You are making a number of judgments in your claims above that you are not qualified to make; you are not all-seeing or all-knowing. Or do you consider yourself more than a prophet?
You also are disallowing scriptural examples. The Savior declared the Law of Moses fulfilled in Him, and made that change. If Moses was a prophet, how come his words (which were, as with all true prophets, originally the Lord’s words) were changed?
If the Seventh Day was the proper day for worship, why were the Twelve gathering to worship on the First Day of the week? I’ll give you a clue: it was because the Lord rose on that day, and things changed.
Sorry, April 38, your answer is non-responsive and irrelevant.
We’re talking about Joseph Smith who wanted to restore the true church because he believed it had strayed. This he did.
Many believe that what he established was a church of God–it did the will of God, not man. JS died for his beliefs and the early Mormons saw a lot of persecution, but they refused to conform to the demands of haters and bigots who demanded changes in the church.
Then, as the years passed, some of Joeph Smith’s most fundamental teachings were changed–with convenient “revelations”–so the LDS would be more acceptable to people who were attacking the LDS for these teachings.
That’s where the LDS is today. It has strayed from the narrow path and needs restoration. It no longer follows some of the most fundamental teachings of Joseph Smith and mostly just gives lip service to Joseph, while moving at light speed to be as much like most other plain wrap churches as possible and to be loved by all humans. It has become a church of man, not a church of God.
BTW, your personal attacks just make you look foolish. I don’t have to be a prophet to use critical thinking skills when I read history. You’re in a state of denial.
I repeat: Joseph Smith would be arrested if he showed up in Temple Square today.
Do you read the Bible, Bob?
I guess, to save response time, I will also ask: Do you believe the Bible? Old Testament and New?
Do you read what Joseph Smith taught, fairydogmother?
Your short question about whether or not I read the Bible says volumes about your attitude.
The new Mormons (apparently you are one)–oh, sorry, the word has come down from Salt Lake City to not call yourselves Mormons anymore–are doing everything they can to marginalize the original teachings and replace them with standard born again Christian Bible study.
Perhaps the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price will soon be banned by the LDS. Do you read those, fairydogmother?
I’ll repeat my question: Do you read and believe the Bible?
Oh, sorry. I didn’t see your question: Yes, sir, I read the Book of Mormon daily. I also read the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants and both the Old and New Testments of the Bible, as I am studying.
Oh, and as for your first question, I’m actually listening to “Lectures on Faith” on audio cd, at the moment. I don’t think Joseph Smith wrote them, but he taught them. Our current church study manual for the adults, which is sitting right next to me at this moment, has a picture of Joseph Smith on the front and is a compilation of many of his teachings. I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and that he was an instrument in the restoration of the true teachings of Jesus Christ.
I do not worship Joseph Smith.
I worship God the Father and his son, Jesus Christ.
I also believe in living prophets.
I believe that the instruction God gives the prophets is modified according to the abilities of the people to understand. I believe it is part of his desire to be merciful to his children. (“Milk and then meat.”)
If you are not LDS or FLDS, what is the issue for you? Do you study the teachings of Joseph Smith?
And, again, do you read and believe the Bible? Are you going to answer my question? Are we really having a discussion? Or do you just like to heckle people and make reckless assumptions about them?
Hey, Bob. I just realized we hadn’t asked you if you were RLDS. So?
fairydogmother, nope I’m not RLDS either.
My interest in this is academic. I once had great respect for Mormons. The things they believed in and the way they lived kept Utah a very unique, low crime, and desirable state that was different from most other states.
That has changed as the Mormons have changed. Now, Utah, which has always been reflective of Mormon ways and Mormon culture, is full of crime and social problems found in the Third World.
That’s a direct result of changes in the LDS as the Church tries to be just like all other churches and to be just like the rest of the country.
The LDS needs restoration. It needs to go back to some forks in the road and take the other forks, not the ones some of the modern leaders of the Church have taken.
If you don’t believe me about the crime and social problems, just check the statistics from say 40 years ago in Utah and compare them to today’s statistics. And, if you do so, be sure to check the changing demographics of Utah. You can’t leave people out of the equation when you talk about problems caused by people.
Religions need to mind their own business. Mormons are worse than the whole “Religious Right” everyone talks about. Mormons need to clean up Utah before going around trying to clean up other countries.
The major reason that Utah has a growing crime rate is that it is a haven for illegal aliens. Utah demographics have also changed markedly over the last several years because non-LDS people move here from other states because Utah is “such a great place to live.” They move here because of what we have here and then start changing everything. They don’t like our liquor laws or our obscenity laws or our cohabitation laws or whatever vice is their personal favorite. So, Utah was (and still is) a great place to live because of the Mormon life-style. Don’t blame the Mormons for the changes that are happening to Utah. I didn’t ask everyone to come here.
And speaking of minding your business, Kelsey. Why is it okay for you to tell us that we need to clean up Utah, and then tell US to mind our own business? Keep yourselves and your opinions out of my life and I will be happy to let you live as you choose. As long as what you are doing does not affect me in any negative way or harm someone else’s person or property, I don’t care what you do. But as soon as you cross the line, it is totally my business.
For your information, there are far more Mormons outside of Utah than there are in Utah. (Scary, isn’t it?) All of those Mormons are citizens of the states or countries they live in and, therefore, have rights to have opinions and to be involved in their communities. Those who are citizens of the United States also have a stake in decisions that are made in other states that will eventually trickle down and affect us in some way. So, Mormons and other religious people are minding their own business by being involved and protecting their right to live, worship and educate their children as they see fit.
fairydogmother, the reason your demographics are changing in Utah is because the LDS Church has stepped up missionary work in Third World nations and is importing the demographic changes.
Utah citizens used to have the longest life spans in the U.S.–this was because of the Mormon lifstyle (and some genetic help), but I imagine it has begun to drop and will drop even more as the LDS Church imports even more Third Worlders.
You bring up illegal aliens. No doubt you read about two weeks ago how the LDS Church protects them and is sending them on missions.
It really pains me to bring up negatives about the LDS Church, but in the years I’ve been watching it from an arms-length I’ve seen what I think are some very bad changes.
There are lots of very good and very bright people within the LDS–I know a whole bunch of them–and I know that they’re seeing the same things I’m seeing.
Don’t get me wrong with this comment, but it almost looks as though the LDS Church wants quantity over quality. In time, this is going to have a corrosive effect on the Church. In fact, I know from some of my Mormon friends that it already has had such an effect at the Stake level where there are increasing numbers of takers and fewer givers.
Soon, the LDS is going to look and be just like society at large. Not a good thing in my view. Better to remain insular as it was before and maintain old fashioned Mormon values.
Fairydogmother
Utah doesn’t have a HUGE rate of illegals,, But the border states of Mexico certainly do. I know you live in a fairyland thinking or blaming anyone other than a white person for crime in utah, but do you ever read your own headlines in your newspapers? Utah is #1 in the united states for internet porn. Ranks # 3 or doing anything about teen abuses.
Yeah Bob, build a big WALL around the entire state of Utah!
Do you live in Utah, Kelsey? How do you know how many illegals we have? Do you know that several of the states that border Utah have tightened up their immigration laws and we have not, so they are coming here?
This is the fault of our legislature. Yes, they are mostly white and many of them are Mormon. Please try to remember that Mormons are allowed to think for themselves. We have a very wide range of political philosophies within the church–from Harry Reid all the way to people who think like Ron Paul.
Anyway, yes, a huge percentage of the crimes here are committed by illegal aliens. Ask the people who serve on the juries. Ask the policemen. Ask the victims. We have a lot of illegals and they commit a lot of crimes. I did not say all of the crimes. I’m not that stupid.
Yes, Bob. I know about the church and illegals. But the ILlegals that are in Utah came here on their own. They were not imported by the church.
Kelsey, I really don’t understand why you are spewing hatred. You apparently don’t want to understand; you just want to hate. I don’t know where you get your stats, but stats can “prove” pretty much anything you want to use them for. Sure there’s internet porn here. It’s everywhere.
I know Mormons are not perfect. I have no illusions on that point. We are all human and make mistakes. But how about a little “love your neighbor as yourself”? How about looking for good and overlooking some of the annoying things you see in others? Why does it have to be “us against them”?
Bob, I forgot to address something you mentioned. You said the church seems to want quantity over quality. You might find it interesting that there have been instructions to members and missionaries over the last several years to strengthen existing members and only baptize those who are truly ready and committed to the gospel. In other words, quality and retention are more valuable than huge numbers of baptisms.
It’s really sad that the LDS is now hiding illegal aliens and letting them be missionaries. And, I wonder if these illegal alien families are actually paying to send their illegal alien kids on missions or whether there’s a hidden program to have citizen members pay for them?