Almost two months ago, I praised the the ACLU’s Texas Supreme Court Amicus Brief in the Texas CPS vs. FLDS case. That brief — which helped produce the Texas Supreme Court’s ruling that Texas CPS and Judge Walther had violated Texas law in removing and holding FLDS children back in April — is just as compelling today as it was back then.
The brief is a great primer on legal issues that will continue to simmer over the next several months in San Angelo. You don’t need to be a lawyer to appreciate much of what is says and it will help you become more conversant. If you haven’t read it, I hope you’ll take time to do so. If you have, read it again. More voracious legal beagles might dig into the Texas Supreme Court’s entire portfolio of filings in the case.
In light of extensive evidence that Texas authorities — governor, legislators, Texas Rangers, local sheriffs and judges — combined in an effort to either genocidally wipe out the FLDS as a religious group (by taking all of their children) or drive them out of Texas, consider this short excerpt from the ACLU’s brief:
However well-intentioned DFPS and the district court may have been, the application of novel expansions of state law to individuals associated with disfavored minority religious groups raises concerns about possible religious animus. There is a vast difference between “a legitimate [social services] investigation” and “a campaign to drive wedge between parents and their children for obviously illegitimate reasons and by clearly unacceptable means.”
The brief then quotes the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1993 ruling in Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah (508 U.S. 520, 547) (emphasis added):
The Free Exercise Clause [of the First Amendment] commits government itself to religious tolerance, and upon even slight suspicion that proposals or state intervention stem from animosity to religion or distrust of its practices, all officials must pause to remember their own high duty to the Constitution and to the rights it secures. Those in office must be resolute in resisting importunate demands and must ensure that the sole reasons for imposing the burdens of law and regulation are secular. Legislators may not devise mechanisms, overt or disguised, designed to persecute or oppress religion or its practices.
Against this backdrop, consider a few examples of the evidence that Texas officials have forgotten “their own high duty to the Constitution” and the rights it secures and that Texas legislators have “devised mechanisms” both overtly and in disguise to “persecute and oppress” the FLDS religion:
1. Eldorado Sheriff David Doran, who expressed frustration at failing to find evidence of criminal wrongdoing by the FLDS during four years of surveillance, has also recently said that once the Texas Rangers come forward with “charges” in the case, it will be “very hard” to practice [FLDS] beliefs in the State of Texas.” It is not clear whether the Doran is conveying his own anti-FLDS animus or opining on the religious bigotry of the people of Texas as a whole.
2. Texas State Rep. Harvey Hildebran has publicly admitted his efforts to craft legislation to drive the FLDS out of Texas. He is quoted as telling the Deseret News: “I wanted to make it unappealing to them,” Hilderbran said. “I hoped they wouldn’t stay.”
3. Hildebran was joined in his efforts by Texas Rep. Drew Darby, R-San Angelo who is surely in the dog house with his local KKK constituents over having played a role, as a real estate attorney, in bringing the FLDS to San Angelo to begin with.
4. Texas State “authorities” refused to allow FLDS elders to conduct religious services for the 72 FLDS children who were temporarily housed at Baptist Child and Family Services Youth Ranch, in Gonzales County, Texas. This is according to BCFS President Kevin Dinnin, who is quoted in this Associated Baptist Press article as saying that BCFS honored all of the parents’ requests regarding the care of the children except that their children be allowed, during their captivity, to worship with elders of their own religious denomination. This despite the fact that none of the elders had been accused of wrongdoing.
5. On April 11-12, 2008, the Texas Supreme court hired Charles G. Childress and two other attorneys to “train” attorneys ad litem who would, the very next week, appear in Judge Walther’s court representing FLDS children taken in the notorious raid. The training packet delivered to the AALs included an anti-FLDS propaganda manual called The Primer written by Utah AG Mark Shurtleff. That’s right: The Texas Supreme Court distributed anti-FLDS propaganda to the kids’ attorneys.
6. Texas CPS workers who acted, in effect, as concentration-camp guards over FLDS kids and mothers during the weeks following the raid lied to mental health care workers about the FLDS, suggesting that they all had STDs and were lacking in integrity and common sense because of their religion.
I would be delighted to have readers add to the list. The more data points on official Texas bigotry, the easier it will be for FLDS defense attorneys to constitutionally challenge any misguided Texas attempt to re-take children from their parents.
{ 44 comments… read them below or add one }
Here is an interesting development in another case involving a judge who wasn’t impartial.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=1852208
(sorry I’m not computer savey enough link to the article.)
Kurt,
Not to argue the briefs or the mandamus issue, you are aware that the Supreme Court of Texas has no criminal jurisdiction, aren’t you?
As far as the criminal issues go, their opinion really won’t matter.
Kathy–some minority groups are more entitled to a “fair and impartial” trial than others. At least that’s how it plays in Texas.
The FLDS don’t seem to be one of the more favored minority groups.
)
Jeny
TBM –
Yes, I am aware that Texas has a separate “supreme” Court of Criminal Appeals and that, therefore, what is called the Texas Supreme Court will not have jurisdiction over the criminal cases brought against the men from YFZ.
In narrow, legal terms, what the Supreme Court of Texas said in May “won’t really matter.” But it matters a great deal in moral and ethical terms. As I am sure you also know, the ACLU’s brief referenced above draws not only from Texas courts but also from federal ones, including SCOTUS whose opinion — much the disdvantage of Texas — matters a great deal.
In another thread, you asked if there is a fact witness to the meeting between Childress (or his emissary) and Judge Walther. Yes, there is a fact witness. In fact, there are probably several fact witnesses judging from my source. And yes, whether it was Charles or his emissary, he did personally walk the motion into the Judge.
More, there was a private discussion or other communication between the Judge and Childress at some point over the Judge’s rationale for deleting Exhibit A from his motion. Childress himself either has or has plans to send a letter to opposing attorneys explaining that rationale. In order to explain Walther’s rationale, he would have to communicate with Walther or, alternatively, be so close to her as to be able to read her mind.
So, assuming that the facts are as I have laid them out, in your view, did or did not Charles and the Judge violate their professional ethical responsibilities to avoid ex parte communications?
And by the way, Hitler is a near perfect metaphor for this situation. Hitler employed lots of judicial geniuses to rationalize how, under extant German law, it was OK to commit genocide against minorities of all kinds, including religious ones.
Further, like Governor Perry, Hitler used other legislative geniuses to rewrite German law where his judicial geniuses could not live with themselves otherwise. It was only through the corruption of German law and courts that Hitler — like Perry — was able to commit what the world now recognizes as crimes against humanity. Yet, it was all perfectly legal under German law.
And no matter how the corrupt courts of Texas eventually rule in this case, history will record Texas’ brutality against the FLDS as a crime against humanity — genocide as defined by international law.
So, yes, Hitler does have everything to do with this case. The world is watching. Heil Perry!
K
It is hard to imagine a state that does not shut down the KKK for hate crimes or the many other violations of human rights for which that group is historically accountable, a group that hides behind masks — but shuts down a peaceful relilgious society that basically is minding its own business. Bigotry is Born Again in Texas. And yes, I intended the play on words.
Kurt,
The use of the term genocide is insulting to my people, to the Jewish people, to the Armenians, etc., to apply it to this situation. It diminishes the true acts of genocide that have occurred throughout history, including the genocide committed by the members of the LDS under Brigham Young against the Ute tribe. Both it, and the comparisons to Hitler and Nazism are beneath you, in intellectual, professional, and personal capacities. You and I both know that this is nowhere near the same situation, nor will it be.
You also give way too much credit to the authority of the governor. The Texas governor is the weakest of the 50 state governors. He has no budget authority (his budget is ignored in the Lege), there is not a Cabinet system here (240 individual boards, and he can’t fire board members without an agreement of 2/3ds of the Senate, and even then, just for cause), one Senator can block an appointment, etc. He can cut ribbons and make speeches. What exactly does he control?
We disagree on whether the SCOTUS cases support the Texas laws or not. I believe that they do support them, you believe that they don’t. We can both make arguments in support of our side, using some of the same cases, and I am sure that you’re a good enough lawyer to reverse sides and make arguments the other way.
As for ex parte communications? Yeah, I have a problem with that, if in fact that is what happened (I’m not arguing that it didn’t happen, you have more info than I do on it). It’s not appropriate on the part of either the attorney or the judge.
TxBluesMan,
Do you have any proof of these outlandish lies that your publishing. They had armed conflicts not genocide.
“Childress himself either has or has plans to send a letter to opposing attorneys explaining that rationale.”
I LMAO when I read that he was sending that letter. Maybe he had attached that letter to the motion in case she did not want Attachment A to be a part of it!!!
******
After what has happened to the parents of 449 children we should worry about how comments insult the Jewish people [and] Armenians?
I won’t even touch that “my people”. It speaks for itself.
Txbigotman,
You are an insult to your people. The quote you use to describe Brigham Young’s “genocide” is a reliable as Carolyn and Elissa’s Or General George Crook.
You cannot defend freedom for one group of people and call for the subjugation of another group. I could go on about the AIM “terrorist” movement at Wounded Knee etc. and act as blind as you do, but I won’t. I know injustice when I see it. It is just too bad you don’t.
If you want to know how President Young treated the Native American’s read his words, not a bitter vendetta driven apostate:
http://hickmanmuseum.homestead.com/Washakie.html
The Jews had armed conflicts? What, they were fighting to get into the ovens ‘cus it was cold outside?
I don’t think that the Lenapes would agree that the 96 members, mostly women and children, who had surrendered and were unarmed, were involved in an armed conflict. Unless of course, the armed conflict involves getting your skull caved in by a hammer. Look up Gnadenhutten.
Or the 150+ Sauk-Fox that tried to surrender. Did you know that Indian hide makes good razor strops? Sort of reminds one of the Holocaust, doesn’t it? Look up Bad Axe.
Or let’s look at something closer to home, the participation of the LDS in the genocide toward the Ute tribe. What about the Battle Creek Massacre? Or Ft Utah, where George Smith said that the Indians had “no rights to their land” before they slaughter 57 Utes? Each of those was beheaded. Or the Bear Creek Massacre with 250 dead, including 90 women?
There are over 800 deaths on record where the Mormons killed Native Americans to take their land and drive them out of Utah.
What gave them that right Chris?
That’s rich Plyggs.
Hickman Museum?
You are talking about the same Hickman that beheaded Old Elk, right? The one that showed it off as a trophy? In front of Old Elk’s family and relatives?
And you are speaking of the same Brigham Young that had his militia slaughter 150 non-Mormon settlers at Mountain Meadows and then blame it on the tribes? Unarmed settlers?
Yeah, great guy. Didn’t y’all keep Antonga’s bones in the basement of BYU until 1995, when the Federal Government forced you to return them to the tribe?
Yeah, and the Irish Catholics got their share of genocide too. But, it wasn’t and never has been called that because they were viewed as inferior whites and drunken ignorants.
Do some reading about Cromwell. The Planters. The potato famine….and what happened to the Irish Catholics when they arrived on American shores.
Let’s just say they weren’t greeted with open arms and rose petals. Does “No Irish Need Apply” ring a bell anyone?
For every “different” group in America, there are horror stories to be told, TBM.
TBM –
I’m getting confused. Suddenly, you seem to be suggesting that the current genocidal behavior of the Texas government is justified by the Mountain Meadows massacre. If this is what you are saying, aren’t you pushing a non sequitur? And if it isn’t what you are saying, why refer to the Mountain Meadows massacre at all?
I don’t know who “your people” are since you’ve chosen to write from behind a pseudonym. But I can’t figure how “your people” or “my people” — whoever they happen to be — are relevant to the discussion.*
Anyway, I am not aware of any “people” who have a moral, logical or legal monopoly on technical legal terms like “genocide,” which, turns out, is defined by the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide thus:
The evidence brims over with malicious intent from local school officials to sheriff to CPS to courts to the governor himself. And no one can deny the deliberate infliction of “conditions of life calculated to bring about” the entire destruction of the FLDS: the “imposition of measures intended to prevent births” among the FLDS (as in separation of spouses on pain of losing children); and the “forcible transfer” of FLDS children to Baptists and others.
Thus, U.S. law — in the form of its signed international treaty — fairly convicts Judge Walther, Governor Perry (who approved of the raid in advance) and others who worked with them in the YFZ raid and its aftermath of genocide against the FLDS under the U.N. Convention.
And, yes, the United States is a signatory, without reservation, to the Convention. Therefore, it is binding law in the United States.
In light of this definition, I would welcome a dispassionate explanation as to how use of the term “genocide” to describe Judge Walther’s behavior and Governor Perry’s vociferous support of it is anything but professional and spot-on.
I really do want to understand.
K
*Would be interesting to know why you assume that “our people” are not the same. I assume that you are a descendant of Adam & Eve. Most likely, you’re a descendant of Jacob. Just guessing. If so, we are from the same tribe, Dude. Oops. Is “tribe” also a word I’m not entitled to use? For what it’s worth, I have a g-grandmother named Weinberg. My grandmother fled Germany in 1938. I’ll let you connect the dots. Despite my pedigree, I don’t pretend to own the word “genocide.” I just use it when it applies to the facts.
Brigham Young was not involved in the Mountain Meadow massacre, well he didn’t order it. See the article on the front page of the Salt Lake Tribune.
As for the bones, the remains of Black Hawk were dug up by miners around 1910 or so and then given the the LDS Church’s historical department. The federal government did not force BYU to return them as much as the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act allowed his ancestors to declare that he was a Ute and that they were the descendants. The act states that if you can show that the bones in a museum or university are from your tribe, they are to be released to the tribe. There are fights going on right now over if some remains are from certain tribes or not. BYU didn’t fight it or anything. Yes they were in a storage unit, not on display. You know law, I know American history. I was at BYU (in the History department) when this was going on.
Txbluesman is Governor Perry himself. Don’t insult “his people”. CPS, Barbie, and all the rest of his cronies.
Actually Txbigotman, I googled Brigham Young and indian quotes, and that link had the most and the best. I didn’t know who Hickman was til you just explained it to me.
The massacre at mountain meadow is not justified by me, or by anyone with a brain. What I will contend, with all the heart and proof as you, that it was not sanctioned by Brigham Young either.
Your defense of freedom and liberty, if specific to “your people” and not to all, will eventually come back and bite “your people” again. Or you can continue to be a bigot, your call. Taking children from their parents is as “legally” defined as your “bigamy” laws. I am sure that your grandfather being kidnapped from his tribe is not as bad as being killed, but it is not too far a to be called “genocide”
Truly you can differentiate between just and lawful when it comes to “your people”. I just can’t figure out why you can’t see the same for “my people”
too far from being called “genocide”
Txmom77,
He’s not scoring well on current events either.
TxBluesMan,
It looks like you just exposed you b-ais toward the LDS…and the FLDS are just one and the same to folks like you…religious bigotry? Isn’t that what is taught down there? I concur with Kleiglights when this poster said: “Bigotry is Born Again in Texas. And yes, I intended the play on words.”
In the 1860 there was a general unrest and warfare among the Indians from the Mississippi to the West. Similar conflicts between Indians and non-Mormon settlers in each of Utah’s neighboring territories also occurred during the decade. Interesting you didn’t mention the Sand Creek Massacre that was perpetrated by a Methodist Minister, a Colonel in the U.S. Army in the Colorado area. Those confrontations in the other territories were quickly (and brutally) put down by federal troops; however, the mounting crusade against polygamy and lingering “Utah War” mentalities made the situation different in Utah…remember Johnson’s Army marching to Utah to put down the so-called Mormon rebellion?
The Black Hawk War in Utah started by Indians not only killing the settlers’ cattle but also killing about 70 settlers. This war was unique during that year’s western Indian wars because the antipathy that existed between the United States government and the Mormon Church provided the Indians the opportunity to pursue their hostile activities for an extended period of time without incurring the swift military reprisals suffered by other groups. Not surprisingly, the war ended almost without incident when federal troops were finally ordered to engage the Indians in 1872.
Maybe the arrogant treatment of Texas toward the FLDS will end when the federal government realizes what’s really going on with the denial of constitutional rights. We may not like what we perceive the FLDS are guilty of but I dislike even more the eroding of American citizen’s rights….believe it or not the FLDS are AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!! If the FLDS’ constitutional rights are taken away what group is next? The LDS?
It seems to me to be indisputable that the indigenous people of this continent were wretchedly treated by Europeans and their descendants.
tx, on another site indicated that he considers himself to be one-quarter American Indian (tx, correct me if I’m wrong on that), so I don’t fully understand why he identifies them as “my people” any more than he would identify his European ancestors the same way.
While I am on this sub-subject, let me express my disgruntlement at the arrogation to themselves by indigenous people of the term “Native American.” My ancestors have been breeding, being born, raising children, dying, fighting, paying taxes and running from the law on this continent since way before the Civil War. I think of myself as a Native American. Ok?
The crimes against the indigenous people certainly included genocide. But Kurt’s gotcha, tx, on the present use of that term. You’ve suggested elsewhere that we have new laws regarding plural marriages and marriages to 14 year olds because of changing social and cultural norms. Well, that approach works both ways, and in the UN language on genocide you can find a changed, up to date, definition of genocide which fits right in with a crowded and frequently cruel planetary population. The attempts at running the FLDS, expelling them, from Texas sure seem to fit the definition. It doesn’t matter that the effort was not at, or has not yet reached, the level of cruelty as that against the original occupants. Comprende?
TxBluesMan,
It is too bad that you are lying when you say that Brigham Young had his militia slaughter 150 immigrants at Mountain Meadows. The truth is, he sent messages to the men in charge of Southern Utah to protect the immigrants. The men who did it, like John D. Lee and others, were subsequently cut off the Church. He later suffered execution by the order of a United States District Judge.
Who knows, TxBluesMan may be Perry himself, and agrees with every act of genocide that his great police state commits. Maybe when CPS comes and scarfs off with his kids or grandkids (if he has any), he will think twice and have more respect for those who have been so abused by TEXASS!
Texas does not have “a corner on the market” for this type of activity. Utah and Arizona have done the very same things. The atoney generals there have engaged in activities publicly declared to “take away the economic base of those communities.” Their constituants have enacted laws with the very specific intent to force upon the FLDS unmanageable expenses through a miriade of court issues. Taken down two banks for their courtesy in doing buisness with them. Imposed an unconstitutional law in Arizona that was intended specifically for them, but since has intervened in at least four other schoold districts, which was against the AG’s tesimony at the hearings for the bill to be enacted into law.
I am not party directly with the fuss in Texas, but I am indirectly, and it affects me directly. There is much more that can be documented.
When I say “the men who did it”, I mean the men who committed the murder at Mountain Meadows.
I’m originally from Utah and if they are guilty of what Texas is doing or have aided them or Arizona to target the FLDS with laws then I’m against that as well. The constitution is suppose to stand for something no matter how unpopular the group may be. Maybe if polygamy became legal there would be less targeting by anyone. It’s amazing how many Born Again Evangelical Christians are becoming Polygamist and they are fighting to change the laws.
They have so many websites now…funny they claim that their polygamy is not Mormon polygamy and their numbers exceed the numbers of the FLDS.
http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/latter-day-saints/TTCPIAP85UM1LRMKM
TBM,
I never said the Jews had armed conflicts, I said the Ute tribe and parts of the Mormans had armed conflicts which they did. There is no evidence that supports your claim that Brigham Young ordered the massacre. If you make claims like that, support it with some evidence. Furthermore, the leaders who did order the massacre were excommunicated from the church. Doesn’t sound like they were together on that one.
Lastly, this is in a way the same as the Holocaust. Hitler wanted to get rid of a religious minority, the Jews, he just went a different way to doing it. Texas is trying to get rid of a religious minority to, the FLDS.
Texas Blue Man,
The definition of genocide is as follows :
“the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group”.
In as far as the Texas authorities are seeking to eradicate the FLDS, it qualifies as genocide. Not killing them necessarily, but getting rid of their way of life. To commit genocide by the definition, you need only destroy the group as an entity, not necessarily to kill all members of the group.
Therefore, Mr. Schuzlke’s genocide reference is appropriate.
Furthermore, you seem to apply a double standard here. You are offended by reference to genocide, regardless of its accuracy, but make a scoff about Jews fighting to get into the ovens? You show over-sensitivity where it is unnecessary , and insensitivity in a place deserving some tact. As a descendant of Jews, and American Indians, I find no offense in Mr. Schulzke’s comments, but I can’t say the same about some things you post.
Chris and Ho are right on: Brigham Young not only did NOT order a massacre, he sent word to the southern Utahans to let the Missouri wagon train pass safely, although its members had threatened to poison the settlers’ desperately-needed wells. But when his instructions came, it was too late. No email in those days, folks. No phones, either.
Hannah Rebecca is correct in noting that Johnson’s army was on its way to Utah to “put down a rebellion”; the Mormons were justly fearful after the horrors they had recently experienced in Missouri and Illinois.
Unmentioned so far is the Haun’s Mill Massacre in Missouri, where sixteen unarmed Mormon men and boys (as young as six years old) were shot at point blank range by Missouri mobbers. And where an extermination order against them had been signed by Governor Boggs of Missouri.
My own people in Salt Lake City, under instructions of BYoung, had piled sagebrush around their barns and homes and fled south, leaving a few young men behind to torch everything if Johnson’s army appeared disposed to do harm or appropriate their property. They were living in fear, just as the FLDS are now. That is the atmosphere in which the Mountain Meadow Massacre took place. It does not justify it, but it does put it in context.
Is Texas guilty of attempted genocide against the FLDS? Yes, just as much as Governor Boggs was against the Mormons in the 1830s. Strangely enough, but not so strangely, Missouri did not rescind that order until a few years ago.
Pliggy —
I’m trying to decide whether I should insist that commenters not call others names. Would it be chilling your free speech too much to ask that, for example, you not call TBM “Txbigotman”?
K
I read the link on the KKK in Texas and noticed something in it. It said:
“Texas has been a strong scene of Empire Knights activity. In early August 2006, members of the Empire Knights of Texas, based in San Angelo, held a heavily publicized anti-immigration rally in the northwest Texas city of Amarillo.”
So the KKK that is spreading across the U.S. and have members based in San Angelo. Wow….what religious denomination are their members? Do the they have Anti-Mormon sentiments? Have they spoken out against them? I have found that with the FLDS the Anti-Mormons are jumping on this story like crazy to not only denigrate the FLDS but also the founding leaders of the Mormon Church. I have seen on websites of the Anti-Mormons they tell to attack the early founders of the LDS Church to destroy it. The LDS Church is called a cult in spite of being the 4th largest Church in the U.S. and this year the 2nd fast growing Church. And so the FLDS events play right into the Anti-Mormon sentiment….or their play book to further their cause…as they further their bigotry towards the Mormon faith. Consider this being spewed toward not only towards the FLDS but also the LDS in the same breath, check out his the other videos:
http://videobeta.aol.com/video-detail/lds-polygamy/730640026/?icid=VIDURVHOV04
It is not fair and not right when he misrepresents LDS beliefs and FLDS and haven’t a clue that other Churches believe in Theosis or Deification…the Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and even Martin Luther taught it.
http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/latter-day-saints/TM4IQ0I2QS056K98I
When does it become hate speech? And if you are going to talk about genocide would this type of behavior be part and parcel of that to enrage others to finally act? Martin Luther published a book to vilify the Jews.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm
Later Hitler praised Luther and he seemed to take notes as many of the things that Luther said to do to the Jews were done to them.
http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm
Please clear this up. Does someone have to be convicted to clear the 2005 Age of consent legislation off the books with the US Supreme court? Is there any way to make a preemptive strike against the law and clear the courts of all the cases being cooked up? What are the steps to challenge the law that made this problem happen?
I tried to address the law against the FLDS through the school. But because the accusations were listed as the school district, and it being a corporate entity, not being subject to the rules of Ex Post Facto, and the only thing listed for individuals was a subpeona, someone had to be injured by it to challange it. There has been some injuries since then. but I am not sure how these would relate to other folks, since the issues written into that law were particular to what we were forced to face directly prior to the writing of that law.
Thank you.
Name calling doesn’t strengthen anyone’s argument or add to the dignity of the one who does it.
Here’s to a renaissance in manners and respect, self- and otherwise.
Guess a couple of other comments slipped in there between Kurt and the no-name-calling request. I’ll amend the above to “thank you, Kurt.”
Kurt, I definately will refrain.
Trucker to policeman: “Is it a crime if I call you a jackass?”
Policeman: “Yes, that is insulting an officer, a crime you can be arrested for”
Trucker: “Well then, is it ok if I think you are a jackass?”
Policeman: “Yes, you cannot be arrested for what you think”
Trucker: “Ok, I think you are a jackass”
tx bluesman you dont have to kill people to be guilty of genocide. You destroy them as a people or a culture. In the treaty on genocide, the fifth defintion od genocide is the transfer of children from one group to another. During the raid in April, the stateof Texas seized every child irregardless of age or gender.
Ho,
You said:
“Who knows, TxBluesMan may be Perry himself…”
I saw other posts where they strongly believe he is Sheriff Doran and blogs on other sites as well.
http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2008/06/yfz-kids-headed-home.html
Use the find on the page and type in: JohnLester to go down to his posts about Doran being TxBluesMan. They also believe that Flora Jessop blogs at the SLT Blog under Philo. If anyone has a take on this I’d like to know.
OK,
I won’t argue against y’alls belief that this was genocide (even if it is a stretch).
I will encourage you to try and get the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Texas to take the case. Lottsa luck with that.
Not arguing with you there. Just about as much chance of that as getting Herman Goering to indict Hitler.
There is no way that TBM is Sheriff Doran. No Sheriff can argue the law like TBM.
LOL, JL also thinks that Doran Williams is my nephew…
Those posts are from John Lester, Hannah, and it is my belief that he is mentally ill- and I am not being funny or insulting. I think he’s troubled.
There is no way that TBM is the Sheriff. TBM is articulate, he uses proper syntax, and he makes sense even when he’s wrong. Doran truly sounds like an idiot.
only John Lester believes Philo is Flora, and I think Lester is utterly wrong about that. Philo spells too well to be Flora.
DH – which Doran sounds like an idiot? The sheriff or my nephew?
I’ll have to argue with you if you say my nephew – he may be wrong, but he can talk….
sorry Doran, couldn’t resist…
Gah, of course I mean Sheriff Doran. Reading interviews that cite him word for word makes me cringe (‘doing outcries…’)
Doran Williams is brilliant.=)
And I know you’re just joshing me (and Doran W. ), TBM, but I wanted to make sure everybody else knows what I meant, too.