Texas CPS still withholding evidence from FLDS AALs

They never had an excuse that passes any test.

They had 165+ mothers with attorneys that would not rock the boat too much for fear that the MONSTER would go after ALL parties involved.

Good article. I don’t know what additional “IMPORTANT INFORMATION” you felt it contained (especially since I don’t know who you are) - but many of us from the very beginning (even without legal training) have been saying the raid and removal of ALL the children was wrong and we’ve been proven right over and over again.

As in any community, there will be some ‘abuse,’ but I’m not convinced yet of any harm coming to any of the children of YFZ Ranch. One or two ‘underage’ betrothals where the girls and the parents were in agreement and the consumation of the marriages were years down the road, hardly counts as abuse in a world where children are being shaken, stabbed, raped, shot, thrown off bridges, drowned, etc., etc., etc.

All of these children were wanted, cared for, loved and, above all, VALUED. If only mainstream America could say the same! There would be no need for the abortion mills and lawyers striving to sneak teenage girls off to obtain abortions without their parents knowledge.

Who is it exactly that is abusive toward children? The FLDS or Mainstream America?

Mary Noel Golder, a San Angelo lawyer who prac­tices with Choate at the plaintiffs firm Webb, Stokes & Sparks, was one of a number of female lawyers called to the courthouse the afternoon of the raid by Barbara Walther, the state judge who presided over the cases.

“They thought they’d pick up between 25 and 30 girls, who for religious reasons would need female lawyers,” Golder says. “I told the judge that I didn’t even have a family code book; she handed me hers.”

*CPS sent 6 Investigators to find ONE girl
*CPS called Waco Methodist Children’s Center the DAY OF THE RAID (Thur) to check availability
*Walther tells Golder THE DAY OF THE RAID they were expecting to pick up 25-30 girls
*Email stating Arrow was expecting 100+ kids-Long term care
*LE stalled CPSs Investigation “until a plan could be made”
*LE knew Barlow wasn’t there, and likely knew before the raid that the call was “Sarah” was a hoax
*Voss’ comment that within the first [pause...roll eyes] 2 hours she determine the ranch was no place for children

Does anyone still believe that this was a mission to find “Sarah” and arrest “Barlow”?
Is anyone who is in a position to right this wrong, paying attention?

Riki - I saw that and just thought to myself…more slanted media reporting…and passed on.

Yea…it’s all about FLDS being liars, abusers, blah, blah, blah…

Funny how it’s Texas, LE, CPS and Walther (CPS & Walther especially) that has egg on their faces.

They should be required to tape or video interviews with children. If they had been required to do that, we would know exactly what those CPS investigators were up to that night on the ranch, by the kinds of questions they asked the girls they had torn from their beds and from their own homes scattered around the ranch.
The existence of questions which extended beyond inquiries regarding Sarah, beg the question of their true intent being on the ranch. The fact that they asked girls things like what age is it appropriate to marry etc., proves that CPS workers were projecting Sarah onto those girls, which proves CPS had bias against the whole community from the outset. The existence of bias shows bad faith. The existence of bad faith can taint an entire investigation.

To Joey:

“The existence of bad faith can taint an entire investigation.”

And it did!

2211 Workers Who Perform Investigations
CPS September 2002
Investigations must be conducted by staff at the level of Child Protective Specialist I or above. Note: Trainees at that level may conduct investigations after completing the training required for assignment of case responsibilities.

2246 Recording Interviews With Children on Audiotape or Videotape
CPS September 2006
The law requires caseworkers to record interviews with children on audiotape or videotape during investigations of child abuse or neglect.
Texas Family Code §261.302(e)

Workers must audiotape or videotape all interviews, including preliminary interviews, that workers conduct with all children in a family or school-related investigation. This includes children who are alleged victims, siblings, or child collateral witnesses.

Workers who videotape interviews with alleged victims must ensure that the interviews meet the requirements specified in TFC sections:
· §104.002, Prerecorded Statement of Child, and
· §104.003, Prerecorded Videotaped Testimony of Child.

A worker who audiotapes or videotapes an interview with a child must tape the interview without interruption.

Number of Interviews That Can Be Recorded on One Tape
In an investigation, workers may use one side of a tape for recording all interviews with one child in an investigation. The alternate side of the tape may be used for all interviews with another child in the same investigation.

Exception: If all of the children have the same parents, the worker may use one or both sides of a tape to record all the interviews with those children for that investigation, if and only if the worker labels the tape as required in Item 2246.4 Labeling, Storing, Retaining, and Purging of Taped Interviews.

Subsequent Investigations
A new tape must be used to record interviews for a subsequent investigation on the same family.

Tape Authentication
The worker must begin each taped interview of a child by stating the following so that it is captured on the tape:
· Date, time, and location of the interview
· Name of the child being interviewed
· Name of the worker taping the interview
· Identity of all people who are with the worker and child while the interview is being taped
· Date and time the interview is finished

2246.1 Unusual Situations That May Legitimately Preclude Taping Interviews
CPS September 2006
In very rare circumstances, a worker’s attempt to tape an interview with a child is unsuccessful. When this happens, the worker informs the supervisor promptly after the attempt to tape and documents the reason the interview was not taped. See 2246.2 Documenting in IMPACT Whether Interviews Were Taped.

Legitimate reasons for failure to tape an interview are limited to the following situations:
· Uncooperative parent or interviewee: A child or parent refuses to allow an interview to be recorded. In this instance, the worker explains the benefits of recording the interview and the legal requirements. The worker attempts to overcome concerns and facilitate the parental protectiveness of the child. If cooperation cannot be obtained, the worker must continue the interview without recording it.
· Equipment failure: The malfunction of recording equipment prevents the recording of an interview. The worker must eliminate common causes of equipment failure by checking the recording equipment before use and carrying extra batteries. If the equipment malfunctions after the interview has begun, the worker must continue the interview without interruption.

Taping an interview is not required under the following circumstances:
· Physical inability of interviewee: The child cannot communicate verbally. For example, communication is not possible because the child is an infant; or is otherwise physically unable to speak or write.
· Substitute interviews: If the child is interviewed by another acceptable organization such as a law enforcement agency or child advocacy center, the worker and supervisor may accept the substitute interview (whether or not the interview was taped) in lieu of the worker taping an interview with the child.

2246.3 Confidentiality of Taped Interviews
CPS September 2006
Under DFPS rules, when a parent, legal guardian, alleged perpetrator, or adoptive parent requests a copy of the record after the investigation is closed, the requester may view or listen to a redacted copy of the tapes but may not be given copies without a court order issued according to §261.201(b), Texas Family Code.
See also 40 Texas Administrative Code §700.203, §700.206.

That’s good that they were taped. Now what I would like to know, is on what authority did CPS demand that Merrianne be taken from her bed and brought before the interrogators. The high court has ruled that these were all separate households. You need probable cause to take a child and interview her. What probable cause did they have that night to require that Merrianne be interviewed?

If there was no probable cause to do so, and Ms. Voss or her underlings demanded to see and talk to Merrianne, then Voss should be sued.

They have better have tapes to back up those quotes from those girls regarding Merril choosing their husband. That as well as every other quotation they attributed to underage girls throughout the entire investigation.

And as for quotations attributed to adults, if they hadn’t been read their miranda rights, nothing they say should be admitted into evidence. I don’t care if it was a CPS worker asking the questions.

Tried to post this in the CPS topic but it wouldn’t accept it.

From: Jan Smith
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Class action

Announcement:

A national class action lawsuit will commence after September 10th should the adoption incentive be renewed (S 3038).

All damaged persons can participate to include extended family, parents and former foster/adopt children. You do not have to be a party to any case to participate. There will be a request for damages. Interested parties should have a vested interest in the children removed and be able to prove a substantial relationship.

Also of extreme interest, is obtaining names/phone/location of CPS workers who are falsifying or have falsified documents in court and who have lied in a court setting. They can sue for government entrapment. The goal is to have case workers sue in all 50 states.

Send the case worker a note that states the following:

Dear ,

It has been brought to my attention that you may have falsified documents with dependency actions. If you have not acted dishonestly in the past and are now pressured by the state to remove and adopt out children in an unethical manner, you are entitled to damages.

It is of paramount concern to our nation that these actions be stopped. If you are interested at any time of participating in a class action lawsuit in your state, please write to washingtonstateextendedfamilies@live.com

Sincerely,
Jan D. Smith

======================
August 21, 2008

Attention: Distinguished Members of Congress

Notice of legal intent with regards to S 3038

The People herewith declare that the renewal of the Adoption Incentives S 3038 called The Improved Adoption Incentives and Guardianship Support Act does violate the law under the Sherman Anti-trust Act. In addition, funds distributed to the states entrap state workers causing illegal acts not normally performed by said individuals prior to hire.

The People through discovery have found:

*The imbalance of funding is creating corruption
*Pathology has filtered through all manner of government and related agencies
*Judicial decisions violate the public trust
*Laws are created and passed that give parens patriae unlimited power not provided by the Constitution
*The paradigm shift that accompanied a monopoly/monopsony strategy of funding extracted from dwindling Social Security is devastating families across America
*Children’s lives are at stake and are being killed 6-1 over parents per 100,000
*That the states are not following guidelines placing with relatives but are screening them out using different criteria with foster families
*That pockets of tyranny are going unchecked without recourse
*Congress is not responsive to The People
*That The People also have compelling interest as an implied term

The People are declaring a public health crisis as a result of these findings and also:

In addition, The People find the Parens Patriae to be more than a doctrine but a specialized position created by the government for the government that violates Article 1 Sec 9, 10: No title of nobility or honour shall be granted by the United States . The title extends to the courts, Children’s Administration and public education violating Amendment 14 depriving persons of life, liberty and property without due process. The position applies as a collective.

The People are ordering a cease and desist of the renewal of S 3038. Should action continue to commence, a nationwide class action lawsuit opposing Parens Patriae and the theft of Social Security to provide the continuing tyranny will be executed.

Signed,
Jan D. Smith
Registered Lobbyist
Washington State Extended Families
washingtonstateextendedfamilies@live.com

AFRA Editor Note: To see what S. 3038 is all about, see-

AFRA Press Release
June 28, 2008

SENATE SET TO RENEW 1997 LAW
THAT PAYS CPS TO KIDNAP CHILDREN

Jan’s website:
washingtonstateextendedfamilies dotcom

U.S. Sen. Grassley: Wins committee passage of bill to help foster care kids get permanent, loving homes
9/10/2008

For Immediate Release
Wednesday, September 10, 2008

Grassley wins committee passage of bill to help foster care kids get permanent, loving homes

WASHINGTON — The Senate Finance Committee today approved legislation first proposed by Senator Chuck Grassley to help move kids in foster care to permanent homes was passed today by the Senate Committee on Finance. Grassley urged congressional leaders to find a way to achieve final passage of the legislation before the end of this year’s session….

From Bill Medvecky’s site:

“THE ONE THING THAT DID COME OUT IN “COURT” AND WAS QUICKLY BURIED BY THE MEDIA WAS THE FACT THAT CPS SET-UP MERRIANNE BY GIVING HER A CELL PHONE AND THEN GIVING HER A SCHEDULE IN WHICH TO MAKE CALLS TO HER MOTHER. BARBARA WAS ALSO TOLD ABOUT THE SCHEDULE, AND BOTH AGREED TO ABIDE BY IT.

“BARBARA DID ABIDE BY IT, AND NEVER CALLED MERRIANNE EXCEPT DURING THE PERMISSIBLE SCHEDULE. MERRIANNE HOWEVER DID NOT AND MADE PHONE CALLS WHEN HER DEPRESSION GOT TOO MUCH FOR HER, USUALLY WHEN SHE WOKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND NEEDED SOME COMFORT.”

And Aunt Barbara is uncooperative because she loves her child too much to hang up on her.

//they’ve agreed to produce audio and video tapes by a date certain, correct? //

What date?

riki - I really dont know. Maybe there’s some particular issue with your case or heck maybe they lost them in your case. I have seen many agreed orders and proposed discovery control plans where CPS agrees to make audio and video tapes available with X number of days, depending on what’s negotiated.

“No evidence, no case.”

Don’t I wish

Pretty sad when even the lawyers are saying CPS are liars.

Mr. Kurt, if this is a topic of interest for you…Grits For Breakfast is an excellent Texas resource for the ongoing legal ramifications of this case.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/

SKK,

Coming from CPS, Childress and walther’s court, that later date simply means they can’t have them now. It does not mean the later date will produce them.

I would not be surprised if they do not show up until a federal court orders it.

Nice article Anon!

“…his training amounted to a three-hour CLE family law course that the State Bar of Texas offered shortly after the Eldorado raid.”

That was a masterful plan at work!!

Wasn’t that handled by the same man that represents CPS now?

Can anyone spell C O N F L I C T ?

Represents them in the court that ruled an attorney that was assigned but never represented a child would be a CONFLICT for her to represent a mother now.

The same court that NEVER informed the court of appeals that the unsigned order for custody presented by the state was dated inaccurately?

The court run by a judge that violated Rules of Conduct?

The judge that met that CPS attorney in private to avoid discovery?

The same attorney that is working out DISCOVERY now?

LOL!!! What a circle jerk that entire group of CPS and court officials are there in Texas.

“While doing that, Hays tried to follow the proceedings. At the attorney ad litem orientation, she says, horrible abuse was alleged without specifics.

“We were anxious to hear what the deal was,” Hays says. “We were waiting the whole day for the other shoe to drop, and it didn’t come. I knew something wasn’t right because I wasn’t learning much.”

All put together by the attornet representing the CPS wasn’t it?

Reported 10am Fri 4 Apr

Mange said officials do not know how many people live there, and declined to say which agencies are assisting CPS and DPS at the ranch.

Doyle said local officials received notice Thursday that law-enforcement agencies were investigating at the compound.
“It’s been in the making for a while,” Doyle said. “They were supposed to move in yesterday evening (Th 3 Apr) with enough personnel to be ready for whatever. I guess they did.”

“For A While”?
4 Days or 4 Years?

SKK
“I think you have your facts wrong. If you’re talking about Shockley, you do.”

I’m open to any sharing the details that showed a conflict of interest which would have violated the Rules of Conduct.

Makes me sick they’re dragging in 20 year olds and charging them with 1st degree felonies. Texans are the most self-righteous hypocrites on the planet.

Joey, the girls were 15 when they married these men one 35 at the time, one, 27 and one 20

This is about Justice, please tell me why Utah and Arizona didnt do more for the last 20yrs?

The whole thing is stupid. I hope all the cases go before an unbiased judge. If Walther had any kind of integrity she would recuse herself as being too biased to pass a fair judgment. She’s on record as being totally anti-flds and up to her neck involved with the scheme to destory the FLDS.

According to Willie Jessop, no underage marriages took place after 2006. In 2007 the girls married to men indicted were 16, which meant the ones today, were 15 when they were married in 2005.

Abby when these people got married is none of your business or mine. The evidence was gotten illegally; these are private matters, into which Texas had no business sticking its nose.

Joey, when it comes to endangerment of children, its everyones business. Especially if a parent refuses to protect that child.
To the Law , they consider a 12-15 yr old , still a child.
These girls were married at 15 or younger.

txmom….sorry…but i had to chuckle at your ‘prom night’ statement.

Again…the new ‘age’ for marriages has only been on the books for what? 3 years now? Before 2005 it was hunky dory for Texans to marry off their 14 year olds, so stop with all the drama, Abby. Where were you 3 years ago when 14 year olds were being married off?

And stop with the dramatics about the age difference…good grief. Do you know how melodramatic that sounds? I know people that have greater age differences in their marriages, and I know of kids that have had children a LOT younger than 15 or 16 in my community.

Guess what… CPS is not breaking down the doors, they’re not rushing in and stealing a whole complex’s children, pressing charges against all the parents, blah, blah, blah.

Why? Cause they’re not FLDS.

Abby, I agree with you that child abuse should not be happening in any community. So…go stop it in yours. You’ll get laughed at if you try to get the underage pregnant/sexually active girls taken into custody - and probably told that DHHS can’t afford to pick up and provide for every sexually active girl.

So…in the ‘Texas’ eyes’ it’s okay to be pubescent and sexually active, as long as you’re NOT married! If you dare to get married you’re considered sexually abused.

And, 2nd big guess what… The state doesn’t go after these ‘fathers’ except for $$$$$$$$$$$$. They’ll even pay for the DNA test when the fathers’ are unwilling to come forward and be responsible like a men for the children they created. But the only reason the law, CPS, or DHHS cares about the girl is to get $$$ out of the guy to support the baby so they don’t have to.

Hey…if you have trouble finding any underage pregnant girls in your community - try the Maury Povich show - he seems to have a whole whippin’ lot of them who have been SO promiscuous that they have no CLUE who their child’s daddy is. (THAT is the culture you want Merrianne to be ‘normalized’ to - promiscuity, vulgarness, and lewdness… yes. The world has a LOT to offer her, huh?)

And then come back on here wailing about child abuse.

Honest to God…you would rather destroy a peaceful, quietly living, disturbing-no-one CULTURE than allow a couple girls to enter into a marriage a year before they are of ‘legal’ age as defined by whatever state they’re in at the moment.

They’re are bigger problems in life.

Good grief.

Chai Tea …I beleivve you’re the one sounding a little melodramatic and I submit that the only reason you’re ok with this hands off approach to law breakers is BECAUSE they’re FLDS.

Disregarding the age difference, there’s a big difference between a promiscuous teenager who has sex with her boyfriend and a 15 year old who is wed to a stranger and becomes pregnant because the prophet commanded it. Do you really not understand the difference?

We saw one here claim the names and ages (at the time of marriage) for those to be indicted was;

- LeRoy Steed 46 / Elizabeth Laverne Jessop 16

- Keith Dutson 46 / Natalie Jessop 17

- Joseph Jeffs 40 / Suzane Johnson 16 child & pregnant

- Abram Jeffs 35 / Suzanne Jessop Jeffs 16

I guess 1 out of 4 is better than zero!

Of those 4, the only I saw records which MAY indicate there is a child was for an “Elizabeth L. Jessop”, mother of Fred Jessop DOB 10/9/07.

Other than Warren Jeffs, who I did not search for because he was not at the ranch when it was raided, I have not had the best of luck finding any babies that tie into the charges filed to date.

It’s possible the state has better records of parentage (mothers / children) than they’d put out when the children were released, but so far the evidence is looking rather slim without a complaining victim.

Disregarding the age difference, there’s a big difference between a promiscuous teenager who has sex with her boyfriend and a 15 year old who is wed to a stranger and becomes pregnant because the prophet commanded it. Do you really not understand the difference?

Yes. The latter is more likely to have the financial support of the child’s father.

Cosmo { 09.30.08 at 2:24 pm } Do you really think they are strangers? Those guys live in a pretty close-knit community. I doubt there are any strangers among them. I’m not saying that the marriages are right or wrong, but they aren’t marrying strangers.

As for the ages of the girls, if God didn’t feel it was acceptable, then why did he create our bodies to be capable of conceiving in the early teens?

Our society has a lot of messed up ideas…It’s okay to wear clothing that leaves very little to the imagination, yet it’s offensive for a woman to nurse, using her breasts as they were intended, in public? It’s acceptable for a girl to have an illegitimate child in her teens and raise that child as a single parent, yet it’s wrong for a girl to choose to marry and have children in her teens? We fight for the rights of gays and don’t think twice about infidelity among the supposedly monogamous, yet we persecute a group of people who choose to practice polygamy. We live in a truly messed up society!

Well said, Cosmo! *clap, clap, clap*

Almost 50% (FIFTY) of the kids being born in this country RIGHT NOW, don’t even have fathers. Belly ache about that.
Compile a list of social/familial issues and compare outside FLDS to inside FLDS. There is no justification for what’s being done.

You know what the attitude in Tx was when kids were prostituted inside the JJ system?

We’re not sure that they didn’t want it/ like it.

Hmmm.

LOL,, TxBlogger,
How would anyone know if there is more sex or more abuse in Flds or polygamy?? Everything thats done is secret. They dont report to CDC, Family services, or any other bureau who would keep track of abuse, or underage sexual contact.
Now think Txblogger what a dumb statement you just made.

Isn’t CDC Centers for Disease Control? How are they relevant to this?

If you mean CPS, monogamous parents who abuse their children don’t make reports either. But, reports are made, and there are stats available to compare FLDS families to the general population.

Just because YOU don’t like the visible choices someone is making does not mean that they are doing anything illegal or immoral. It is a serous leap in reasoning to decide that because a child raised in a polygamous family claims to have been abused that all children in polygamous families are abused. Because one child raised in a blue house was molested, should we remove all children from blue houses? After all, what goes on in blue houses is done in secret; they aren’t reporting their personal affairs to anyone.

When children are born, they are given a birth certificate by the state. Whether they are underage or not. When someone gets an abortion, that also is recorded. How do you think they do these studies?
Flds, were delivering their own children and NOT reporting those to the state or anyone else.
They recorded them for themselves, but not to the state.
Just as Legally married coupled with a license is recorded. Flds doesnt record more than one wife to the state, whereever they live. Why and how do you think these women who werent legally married in Flds were getting food stamps and welfare in Utah and Arizona?

Truly, Abby, you have a dizzying intellect. I hate to see what happens when you get going!

When a child is born, they are given a birth certificate, whether they are underage or not? Whew! I’m glad they still get them if they’re underage. Mine was born three weeks early! Okay, I know that’s not what you meant, but what in the heck did that mean?

What authority are you citing when you state that their children do not have birth certificates? Birthing children in ones own home is not a crime, and it is not an indicator of abuse. It’s actually a growing practice among the educated. They witness the birth at home and report it to the recorder’s office. Are we going to start sending CPS after everyone who gives birth at home?

md, the problem is FLDS in Texas didnt report births to the state, and the doctor at that ranch, didnt report underage pregnancies or births, which is required by the state of Texas . By phsycians especially.
The children born in Texas are made a birth certificate by Flds. But it isnt recorded with the state.

Yes, I really think they are strangers. I know they are. Ask any FLDS young teen girl how much social contact she has with members of the opposite sex outside of her immediate family … strangers.

The indifference to arranged, illegal marriages of 12 year olds is sickening.

The non-reporting of births was testified to by an FLDS (current member, not apostate) mother at the 14 day hearing

more than *one* alleged

I’m an FLDS member, and I don’t know of any children who don’t have birth certificates. There might be a very few cases (I don’t go around asking people if they got birth certificates for their children), but I’m not aware of them.

Joey is completely right that our view of marriage is something very much different than the way most Americans seem to view marriage. The best way I can define it in as few words as possible is that it’s a commitment of love, sacrifice, and giving for each other and raising up honorable children who can do better than we have done.

I do not know of a single instance where a girl was married underage where that girl did not request it first. Elissa Wall is no exception, either. There are people here who can testify that they were there in the very room when she told her step-father (the Bishop, Fred Jessop — Uncle Fred) that she wanted to be married then at age 14. No one is required to get married until they feel they’re ready. If they request to wait, that request would be honored with no questions asked.

What really makes me sick is the indictment of Keith Dutson, Jr. I went to school with him and he was a pretty good friend of mine. Is Texas willing to go and charge EVERY single 21-22 year old who had sex with a 16 year old and they weren’t legally married? Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that he and his wife really do love each other? Folks like Abby seem to be so confused that they can’t see that husbands and wives here, even with our different view of marriage, really do love each other and any marital relationships are to only take place consensually.

“kbp — for all the indictments so far, there are babies.”

Abusing the truth again, we need to put truth in a shelter away from SKKK.

A ninth FLDS man remains at large despite being indicted on two undisclosed charges months ago, said Schleicher County District Clerk Peggy Williams.
I thought Willie Jessop said, all men indicted would turn themselves in.

Im sure people who were born in Utah or Arizona (adults) had birth certificates, but the ones born in Texas didnt have birth certificates registered for their children. They were made at the ranch and kept in vaults. In Dr Barlows interview with Authorities, he said he delivered many babies to underage girls, but never reported it. Thats what he has 3 indictments against him.

riki,
I dont know, you tell me? We dont know that the FBI isnt looking for him now do we?

marrie, I mean Abby, you haven’t established yourself as an “expert” or as a reliable source of accurate information.

Where was it reported that there were NO birth certificates filed with the BVS? A link please. Your opinion is not proof.

Because Barlow didn’t comply with ‘mandatory reporting’ doesn’t necessarily mean no birth certificates were filed.

Since Hildebran(Perry actually) changed the law to specifically target the FLDS, never mind it didn’t pass muster with his peers, did either bother to inform the FLDS that the law had been changed and an informal investigation was underway? Was Barlow, as a mandatory reporter, informed?

“A ninth FLDS man remains at large despite being indicted on two undisclosed charges months ago, said Schleicher County District Clerk Peggy Williams.”

As I recall, we’ve had 8 men that voluntarily surrendered and a ninth that is in prison already.

That statement looks inaccurate one way or another.

According to the Records at Schliecher county courthouse, No births from YFZ have been filed, nor have any marriage licenses from YFZ ranch.
You file both in the County you live in.

Okay, you had 102 children from infant to 2 yrs old. Some of those were born at YFZ, no birth certificates filed in the county.
No marriages in 2004 ,2005, or 2006 filed for YFZ in Schliecher County. We do know however, that marriages took place.

And, isn’t it Schleicher, not Schliecher? There likely haven’t been any births at all recorded in Schliecher County, TX. Maybe that’s where the 9th man is in hiding!

txmom, my children birth were recorded in the county they were born in to. Since there was a doctor and nurse on YFZ ranch who lived there, births happened, but birth certificates werent filed in the county.
And anyone can look up a marriage license. even on google, and it will tell the county they couple was married in. I know this because I did it with my own name and it popped right up, who I married the county I was married in, the names of my parents.

Didn’t work for me! I just tried it. I was surprised to find out how many people share my same name and are connected to someone with my husband’s name. But, I wasn’t among them. Okay, there was a link to my friend’s blog, which included a reference to us. But, there wasn’t any record of our marriage. So, I suppose you could argue that because my marriage doesn’t come up on Google, I’m not legally married or that I didn’t have my marriage recorded?

Even if Googling for recorded marriages did work, it wouldn’t tell us anything about births. From what I’ve been able to find, Texas law does not require that births or deaths be recorded. And, you can only view birth information, for births in the last 75 years, if you are an immediate family member.

Kari, type your FULL Maiden Name in Google, I just did it myself, and pulled up who I married, when, what city, state and who my parents were, and names of my children.

Abby, I tried my full maiden name, and it didn’t change anything, except that I found some database with myself and others who went to my high school. I tried my sister and several friends using their full maiden names too, and I didn’t come up with any marriage informaton.

Cosmo the numbers aren’t out for 2008
These are the number of children in foster care in 2007, so 15,000 children out of 6,376,086 doesnt sound that high to me.
Statistics FY 2007
Texas State Child Population 6,376,086
Children, Alleged Victims 278,303
Children in Confirmed Investigations 102,434
Children Removed 15,920

I would say 15, ooo kids removed out of 6 million children isnt so WAY out there.

At the 60 day status hearing there was Judge Walther, Judge Ben Woodward, Judge Tom Gossett, Judge Jay Weatherby, Judge John Specia and Judge Aboussie, all holding status hearings , txmom.

And the 14 day hearing Abby? One judge Walther for 460 children.

Umm, they were supposed to be individual hearings. As far as I know, the parents didn’t waive their rights to a 14-day hearing did they?

The 14 day hearing was suppose to be individual, but your moron judge apparently couldn’t see that she was in over her head. A 60 day status hearing usually last 5 minutes. The important one is the 14 day hearing to see if they had cause. It seems to me that “330 children taken from YFZ ranch” doesn’t really count as an individual hearing when you don’t know the names, and please spare me the “well they lied about names and families” If CPS workers want an easy job, McDonald’s is hiring and they pay about the same.

Md, No amount is acceptable, but there are many children abused in this country. There were 15,ooo in some kind of foster care last year, doesnt mean they all STAYED in foster care, Im sure a large number were returned to their parent, parents, or relative.

“As you can see this was just to determine if CPS should keep conservertorship of the children till 60 day status hearings, where each case would be listened to.”

JUST to determine if they should be held for SIXTY DAYS….PRIOR to an individual trial! What about the right to a speedy trial?

Abby, as an infant, toddler, young child, or even as a teen, do you have any idea how long 60 days is when you are separated from the parents you love? Especially when you’ve been removed from them against your will? It’s not like a teen going to summer camp for a week, or even a month…it’s an eternity in which, for the little ones, attachment disorders are created. Memories are forgotten. No toddler should be removed from their mother for any period of time, unless it has been determine, not ASS-U-MEd, that the child is in imminent danger.

JUST 60 days? You are so detached from humanity! Are you a social worker? I can’t think of any other profession, other than Democrat politicians, who could view that situation and not recognize that holding a child captive for sixty days, pending a fair trial, is not acceptable.