Now that Texas CPS is finally admitting error in rounding up hundreds of FLDS parents and children back in April, some CPS apologists are reprising the mantra, “CPS always intended to reunify those families.” Even if this were not pure baloney, the trauma inflicted on many of these families became indelible in the first 24 hours of the raid.
As to the baloney factor, read below a damning April 23, 2008 e-mail blast — with the usual dose of pithy commentary — soliciting help for “permanent placements” of FLDS children with Arrow Child and Family Ministries. At the same time that this e-mail was circulating, Texas CPS infobabe Marleigh Meisner was busy telling the press “our goal is reunification.” Right.
I live in Texas and thought y’all might be interested in seeing an email I received from one of the yahoo groups I belong too. It’s not the first one I have received although this one is the most detailed as to what will happen to the children:
Hi Everyone! My sister, _____ is the executive secretary to ________, who is the Founder and President of Arrow Child and Family Ministries. Arrow found out today that they will be receiving 80 -100 permament placement children from the Eldorado Compound from infants to 11 years of age. These are children that will be placed in Arrow’s care for 1 - 2 years.
More than likely, the parental rights of their parents will adventually [sic] be terminated and they will placed in foster homes and/or adopted out. Arrow is an excellent Christian Foster to Adopt agency. I have met many of the staff and they are very Godly people.
Editorial comment: I bet they are “godly,” not like those heathen, child-eating FLDS!
I am so grateful to Arrow for being willing to take on such a responsibility of caring for these children. These children will be in a wonderful Christian environment. They will be placed at the beautiful Arrow Retreat Center in Porter, TX. Arrow is in need of many volunteers of short and long term commitments. The current need that they have is getting the cabins ready for these children by next Monday. CPS will be out to inspect the Arrow Retreat Center in Porter next Tues. and everything has to be in tip-top shape. These children are use to [sic] a very clean environment. (They have not been allowed to be normal children and have been made to work and clean instead of play.)
Any FLDS care to comment on this bit of propaganda? Do FLDS children ever get to play? Or is it just work, work, work for those poor babes?
The cabins have been setting over the winter and are in need of a good Spring cleaning. Ronna and I were out there cleaning one cabin till 9:30 tonight and we didn’t even get have way finished. There are seven cabins that have to be cleaned. I will be working at The Arrow Retreat Center all day on Wed., April 23rd. If there is anyone that can donote anytime this week to help Arrow clean the facilities and help prepare for these children, please call me at (281… .
I am helping coordinate this project. (No training is needed for this volunteer task. Just wear clothing that you don’t mind getting dirty! Bring old rags and cleaning supplies if you have them.) Teenagers are welcome to help with this project as long as they are supervised by a parent or responsible adult. I wouldn’t advise bringing children under the age of 12 because of the cleaning chemicals and labor involved.
Arrow will need many volunteers to do a number of tasks over the next couple of years. From doing laundry, to cleaning, cooking, shopping, etc… (My understanding, these volunteer tasks would be at your convenience, whenever you are available.) They are also in need of long term volunteers that would work directly with the children in 8 hour shifts. There are other volunteer needs as well. In order to volunteer, you must attend an orientation meeting and some training is involved. To find out when and where the orientation meetings will be held, you may contact Arrow Chld and Family Ministries at (281… .
They are also in need of donations. I am attatching a list of items needed if you or your church family can help in any way. I know that their current needs are white twin sheet sets , (200 sets) white towels, wash clothes, hand towels and toiletry items. The list will of course change when they find out the needs of the children they will be receiving. They will need pack-n-plays, high chairs, strollers, car seats, diapers, etc. for the babies.
Right now, they are just worrying about the present needs of preparing for these children. As far as these children’s education goes, it looks like CPS is coordinating with the University of Texas to have a charter school on site at the retreat center. This will take place in the Fall. Therefore: Arrow will have to build several new buildings for the school. I am helping pick-up donations and cooridinate volunteers for Arrow, so please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Editorial comment: How does an ambitious UT charter school initiative, complete with construction of “several new buildings” mesh with a long-term reunification plan?
More than anything, these children need a lot of prayer. Only God can heal the hurt and sort out the confusion in these children’s lives.
Whoa there, Nellie! Just a darn West Texas minit! You mean only God and CPS, right? Don’t fergit CPS!
Please pray for the staff of Arrow that God will give them strength and wisdom to care for these children. Arrow will have to hire around 75 workers to help care for these children. Please pray that God sends them just the right people to work with these precious children. Sorry this is so long. Thank you for taking time to read this.
Blessings,_______
(ht: Common Room and Pro Libertate)
{ 44 comments… read them below or add one }
Thomas Forguson 08.27.08 at 6:18 pm
WOW! It’s one thing to suspect and another to have the evidence. I wonder what the CPS apologists say now.
kbp 08.27.08 at 6:18 pm
Cart before the horse.
from YFZ 08.27.08 at 6:26 pm
“Any FLDS care to comment on this bit of propaganda? Do FLDS children ever get to play? Or is it just work, work, work for those poor babes?”
: )
Sorry, Kurt. I was so engrossed playing tag with the children on the lawn that I didn’t get around to checking your site till now, but I’m glad I did.
Well, I need to go again; but I’ll try to get back with you later when my little crew is finished coloring their animal pictures and pulling their molasses taffy. Thanks!
a cricker critter 08.27.08 at 6:30 pm
lol as an FLDS former child, and now mother, i have to simply laugh. I have mothers who make anything fun, whether it was water fun, or pulling weeds, or homemade ice cream! any activity can be fun or relaxing or exciting, It all depends on the company you keep, and the attitude you take.
M. E.
Johannes Steiner 08.27.08 at 6:44 pm
“They have not been allowed to be normal children…”
How revealing of the real source of the whole mess. It’s not about anything that actually will hurt these children, it’s about Texans feeling safe. “These people are weird, we don’t like them. They aren’t like us. Why don’t we have them where symbols on their clothes so we can distinguish between them and normal people. Maybe we should take their kids away. We can raise them to be NORMAL. They need that. We can give them the love they are lacking. That’s the Christian thing to do…”
txmom77 08.27.08 at 6:58 pm
I guess you never saw this letter from Arrow written to the governor. I think they are a little mad….
http://www.arrow.org/content/center/files/MRC%20Letter%20-%20Eldorado%20-%20June%2013.pdf
Joey 08.27.08 at 7:28 pm
Oh isn’t that sweet? All the Texans chipping in with the mass child-abduction activities.
Joey 08.27.08 at 7:34 pm
The letter you just read above is evidence of genocide — the transfer of children from one group to another. I think it should be turned over to the UN for further investigation. I’m serious about that.
AnonAmom 08.27.08 at 8:02 pm
I have three thoughts after reading the e-mail in your post and the letter TXMom (6:58) posted.
1. The e-mail and AM letter say nothing about screening volunteers. I wonder if they do background checks on these people or let just anyone volunteer. Volunteers who work with children should have the same kind of background screening that employees receive.
2. The letter from Arrow Ministries suggests that they, too, are perturbed by the tendency of CPS to prevaricate. They were, no doubt, also misled. The AM folks spent considerable resources from their own coffers and the community to care for an influx of children they never received. It must be clear to them that CPS never had appropriate cause for removing the children, nor should DFPS have been so hasty to suggest they would be receiving many long-term placements.
3. Despite the acknowledgment that the cause for removal did not exist, AM continues to be misled by false information. Their insistence that Perry look into the “Lost Boys” situation is unfortunate. They evidently forgot to notice that CPS numbers of teen girls were exaggerated by including a large number of adult women in the “teen” category. From what I have gleaned, Texas FLDS have not had a “lost boy” situation — and I’m not certain that the “problem” in Utah represents a significant variance from the general population in terms of wayward youth who either leave home early or choose a different path than their parents.
Any group can be the target of non-specific, generalized prejudice. Locally in my town, high school rivalries can result in folks speaking poorly of one group or another for years. Yet, in almost all respects, the students at the three high schools in town are demographically and academically similar. “They’re probably great people if you get to know them,” or “I knew someone from there and they were nice!”
The good people of Arrow Ministries should spend some time with the folks they’re trying to save. They may learn a few things about gospel and people who live close to Christ in the process.
CurioiusTexan 08.27.08 at 8:15 pm
Please pray that God sends them just the right people to work with these precious children.
Looks like their prayers were answered, sent back to their parents. Careful what you pray for, could hurt your profit margin.
And let’s have a look at Arrow- one of TDFPSs preferred programs. WOW !!
Why in “God’s” name would the state place kids in a gulag with so many violations of regulations? Such as:
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/Search_Texas_Child_Care/ppInspectionDetails.asp?fid=286945&facNbr=856145%2D58&facName=Arrow+Child+and+Family+Ministries&fType=Child%20Placing%20Agency&idInsp=142758041&stndrdPndng=N
*A child in care was ill and progressively becoming worse over a period of two weeks. Foster parent failed to seek proper medical treatment for the child, as advised by a medical professional due to concerns for the child’s low oxygen level and labored breathing, because the child did not have a Medicaid card.
[Medical neglect and cause for a child to be removed from their home.]
*There was a strong odor of cigarette smoke throughout the home. Three of four children who live in the home confirmed that foster parent smokes in the home.
[A Tx parent can loose custody for subjecting their kid to smoking if another person chooses to draw it to their attention.]
*A child has not been receiving prescribed medication since 3/2008 because the child did not have a Medicaid card. There was no documentation from a medical professional discontinuing the medication.
[Not good. If this was one of many psych drugs, going off cold turkey can result in death.]
*The pool was observed with dirty water that prevented the bottom of the pool from being visible. Pool needs to be cleaned. Foster parent stated that the pool is scheduled to be cleaned on 6/13/2008.
*Psychotropic medications were not being stored under double lock. Foster parent is using bedroom entry door as the second lock. This door was not locked at the time of the visit.
*Foster parent admitted to discontinuing child’s psychotropic medications because the child’s doctor’s office was too far to drive for required follow up appointments.
[Repeat offense.]
*Psychotropic medications are not being stored under double lock. [Repeat violation]
*Container where medication is stored was observed unlocked. Medications were also observed in an unlocked hallway closet that is accessible to children. [Repeat violation.]
*Contact between child placement staff and children must be significant and documented in the child’s record to support decisions. Narrative - Child’s file does not include documentation of monthly face to face visits with the child.
[Repeat violation]
*Child’s record did not include service plan review due 2/19/2008. The service plan for a child was completed later than 180 days from the date of the last.
*One of four children records evaluated did not include annual psychotropic medication training for 2007.
*One of four foster home records evaluated only included 18 hours of annual training hours for 2007. [50 required.] One of four foster home records evaluated did not include annual EBI training hours for 2007.
*One of four children’s records evaluated did not include the court orders establishing who is the managing conservator for the child.
*The incident of a child in care being arrested was not reported with in 24 hours of becoming aware of the incident. The child was arrested on 3/12/2008 the report was not submitted until 3/14/2008.
Okey Dokey. I’ve seen enough and I’m only on page 2 of 9.
Shakes head.
Clearly the definition of abuse and neglect is different for parents than institutions. Is the picture coming in any clearer to you CC?
Jeny 08.27.08 at 8:19 pm
“txmom77 { 08.27.08 at 6:58 pm } I guess you never saw this letter from Arrow written to the governor. I think they are a little mad….
http://www.arrow.org/content/center/files/MRC%20Letter%20-%20Eldorado%20-%20June%2013.pdf
”
From that letter:
“We currently have over 800 Texas foster children in our care. We also serve Home and Community-based Services clients, and last year consummated over 140 adoptions of foster children.”
140 adoptions x $4,000 per adoption = $560,000.00
No small chunk of change. Hmmmmm.
TxBluesMan 08.27.08 at 9:03 pm
Kurt,
Do you have any actual evidence or just more internet innuendo? Any proof CPS was involved? Or is this just the wishful thinking of the PPSG?
CurioiusTexan 08.27.08 at 9:06 pm
AnonAmom
I like your user name.
Regarding background checks. They are required of anyone who has frequent or regular contact with children. Even volunteers.
Are they being done? Their record isn’t much better than CPSs record for screening their own employees. Here’s a sampling:
No current background check for a person who frequently supervises the foster child in the absence of the foster parents.
No criminal history check was available for the sister of foster mother. Sister of foster mother was alone with children at time of investigation and confirmed that she provides care of children.
No criminal history background check was observed for foster father Mr. Guy Johnson.
Background check was not done on foster parent’s male cousin who frequently visits the home.
One of three contract workers in foster home does not have a background check.
There is an adult living in the home who has not had a background check.
And NUMEROUS Fire and Health Violations. And these reports are just from Aug 2006 to the present.
Many violations for lack of training hours such as this:
Foster parents were non-compliant with minimum standards and the agency failed to take action to cite and address deficiencies found in order for the home to achieve compliance. The following non-compliances were observed as not being cited by the agency: The foster parents only received 7 hours of annual training for 2007. Upon review of Quarterly Re-Evaluation documentation dated 6/4/2007 for the foster home, physicals, dentals, TB skin test, and psychiatric medication monitoring reports were not updated as required. Per agency staff, the foster parents did not receive any annual training for 2006.
How can any of this be justified? Selective enforcement?
That’s why kids are four times more likely to be killed and injured in foster care.
SKK 08.27.08 at 9:31 pm
I think your editorial is unfair. This is an email from a person whose relative is on staff at the agency. No telling where the info came from or how it got twisted or misinterpreted along the way.
Early in the case, I think if you had asked most CPS caseworkers involved, they would have said termination was a likely result. But if you had asked CPS lawyers they would have said reunification in most, if not all, cases. CASA would probably have reserved judgment until more info was available, and AAL’s would have been split.
Anyway, it’s the broad brushing and presumptions that are offensive. The FLDS families objected to being treated as a homogenous, single unit .. I’m sure CPS caseworkers, investigators, lawyers, and administrators would be likewise offended, and justifiably so.
kbp 08.27.08 at 9:41 pm
TBM
Is this, from the letter AM sent Perry what you’re asking for?
“When DFPS was given temporary custody of the children at the April adversary hearing,
DFPS approached us with the request that we prepare to provide long-term care for up to
100 of these children.”
txmom77 08.27.08 at 9:47 pm
AnonAmom,
At the time the Supreme Court ruling was handed down, Carolyn Jessop was leading the training meetings at this center. So Arrow was getting all of their information from her. As you can see from their view of asking the governor for help with women who want to leave. So they were learning how to deal with these children from former “cult” members as they called them.
kbp 08.27.08 at 9:48 pm
I’m uncertain how SKK wants us to identify all in the CPS crowd that are not so innocent.
Kurt Schulzke 08.27.08 at 10:07 pm
SKK –
Without conceding “unfairness” in the editorial, the impact of stereotyping — if any — in this post doesn’t hold a candle to the harm inflicted on hundreds of entirely blameless FLDS parents and children by invidious, unconstitutional stereotyping by CPS and its attorneys. I have no tears or regrets for any CPS worker or attorney. If they don’t want to be associated with the CPS brand, they can find another job, just like all of those Andersen auditors. No big deal.
But have someone bust into your home in the middle of the night just because you live in an odd-ball gated community — that’s a totally different kettle of fish.
K
SKK 08.27.08 at 10:09 pm
kbp { 08.27.08 at 9:48 pm }
I’m uncertain how SKK wants us to identify all in the CPS crowd that are not so innocent.
Funny, because I am uncertain how you want us to identify the FLDS that are not so innocent.
In both situations, identify individuals by their individual behaviors. It’s disingenuous to say that every member of FLDS is “all good” or just because they are members of FLDS. Likewise, it’s equally dishonest to say that every CPS worker is purely motivated and reasonable in their judgment.
There are some CPS workers who are overzealous. Just as there are some FLDS who have committed crimes against children.
Kurt Schulzke 08.27.08 at 10:46 pm
Hmm. Aren’t we getting a bit ahead of ourselves with “have committed crimes”? Some indictments have been handed down. Some affidavits have been sworn out. But we all know how completely false affidavits can turn out to be. There’s this irritating presumption of innocence thing when it comes to criminal behavior. Only Warren Jeffs, so far, has been found guilty of any crime. No one, yet, at the Ranch. Right?
Pliggy 08.27.08 at 10:52 pm
“committed crimes against children”
You mean
“committed crimes against statutes created by society that are different in every state (and are horribly bringing children into families that love them dearly)”
rikitikitavi1 08.27.08 at 11:32 pm
From SKK: But if you had asked CPS lawyers they would have said reunification in most, if not all, cases. CASA would probably have reserved judgment until more info was available, and AAL’s would have been split.
You’re kidding, right? The CPS attorneys were on the same page as the CPS caseworkers: Terminate the rights any way you can, the sooner the better. CASA in San Angelo was also on the termination bandwagon, despite their recent claims to the contrary. As to the “split” among the ad litems: the majority of them wanted the children returned & saw no reason for their removal to foster care. The majority of those who were in league with CPS were from San Angelo (surprise surprise).
Jeny 08.28.08 at 4:06 am
“Kurt Schulzke { 08.27.08 at 10:07 pm } SKK –
Without conceding “unfairness” in the editorial, the impact of stereotyping — if any — in this post doesn’t hold a candle to the harm inflicted on hundreds of entirely blameless FLDS parents and children by invidious, unconstitutional stereotyping by CPS and its attorneys. I have no tears or regrets for any CPS worker or attorney. If they don’t want to be associated with the CPS brand, they can find another job, just like all of those Andersen auditors. No big deal.
But have someone bust into your home in the middle of the night just because you live in an odd-ball gated community — that’s a totally different kettle of fish.
K”
Precisely! Well said, Kurt. Well said!!!
Crusty 08.28.08 at 8:29 am
Firstly, I, like many others, am wholly against the raid and hold no small amount of animosity towards Texas authorities in the mishandling of things.
On the other hand, while I don’t know anyone at Arrow, I have worked closely with a number of similar Christian based foster/adoption ministries and can make some educated guesses about Arrow. These are:
- They are doing their best under very trying circumstances. The money available to these agencies per child is not nearly enough to cover expenses. Most of these groups rely heavily on volunteers and donations to make ends meet. Most truly have a heart for the kids in their care and most individuals involved give up their lives to help these kids. Rather than go to the lake skiing over the weekend they devote their time to helping kids who have so far led a very screwed up life. For the ministries similar to this I’ve worked with it is far from a money making opportunity.
- There are often numerous violations similar to what was posted above. It’s an unfortunate nature of the beast as it is today. Too many kids and not enough money to care for them. I truly do think that most similar organizations are doing as best anyone can. Yes, there are some that are poorly managed and should be shut down, but many are run as well as can be expected given the resources available. It’s a screwed up system that desperately needs to be fixed. Don’t blame that on Arrow though.
- The folks at Arrow are clearly misled about the FLDS. Through a mutual friend I’ve implored Micheal Reagan to visit the ranch and get to know the FLDS folks themselves and make up his own mind, away from Carolyn, about how they conduct their lives and raise their children. We’ll see if anything happens with Micheal or Kellie Armstrong (VP).
Be careful how wide a brush you use in your painting. While Arrow clearly appears to be misled with regard to the FLDS situation, they are also likely a very good and valuable resource.
CC0508 08.28.08 at 8:33 am
more propaganda from mr. kurt this morning! if you call that credible evidence of anything, i imagine you are not a very successful attorney. the assumptions you all are making are mind-blowing. you are assuming: 1). the person who wrote this email is who they say they are, 2). the person who wrote this email knows what they are talking about (for example, my father runs a multi-million dollar manufacturing company. that doesn’t mean i know anything about manufacturing or running a company). 3). let’s assume the above is true, as you have, then you have to make another leap in assuming that what someone at the arrow project says is true. 4). let’s assume all of the above now. you still are assuming that what the arrow project does or thinks is what CPS does or thinks. hmmm….
come on, now, mr. kurt. we learned about assumptions studying for the LSAT. the cost of firing up your army of radicals with this crap is that you look like an ignoramous.
TxBluesMan 08.28.08 at 8:45 am
Pliggy,
No, crimes against children was the right phrase. The only thing SKK could have done, as pointed out by Kurt, is note that no one has been convicted.
Crusty,
Although we disagree on most things, you are correct - it appears that Arrow is just trying to do what is right (without commenting on if they were misled or not).
Anytime you have volunteers in the mix, someone will do or say something stupid that is not within their purview, and that is not part of the overall goal or desire of the organization.
It is not indicative of any official goal or aim of CPS, nor have you presented any evidence of such.
Joey 08.28.08 at 9:58 am
Crusty, as a former volunteer worker myself, as well as one who depended on the generosity of others for my survival, I have to differ with your opinion that “volunteers” and volunteer outfits like Arrow are completely altruistic in their work. The fact is, at some point, they chose to be a social worker, maybe at that point they chose that path for the right reason. But now that they are stuck in that line of work, it’s no longer about sacrifice, it’s about survival. They depend on donations from the public and assistance from government for their livelihood, and they will INVENT causes if necessary to ensure the flow of donations to their organization. I know this from first hand experience. That guy Reagon or whoever, I wouldn’t trust him to turn down such a good cause, like caring for poor cult children, just because the facts say FLDS is not the dangerous society we were led to believe. What benefit does he derive from seeing the FLDS that way?
Crusty 08.28.08 at 10:23 am
Joey, there are many organizations just as you’ve described and these may be the majority. There are others though that maintain their altruism - at least as best they can. My point is that we need to be careful how broad a brushstroke we paint. Not all agencies such as this one are bad and even if an agency is dead wrong on one issue doesn’t mean it’s not right on others.
This is exactly the same as telling folks not to paint all FLDS with the same brushstroke - good or bad. The reality is that there probably is some child abuse in the FLDS. If so, that specific abuse needs to be dealt with. But all FLDS should not be construed as being either saintly good or Hildebran bad.
Crusty 08.28.08 at 10:24 am
Joey, with your experience what would you propose as a solution to the current system?
Crusty 08.28.08 at 10:26 am
TBM,
Joey 08.28.08 at 11:31 am
Crusty, here’s my proposal. Government should stay out of the business of charity. The minute the government inserts itself, the charity business becomes corrupt, simply because government itself is generally corrupt, i.e. taking in (in taxes…and peoples children) more, than it gives out.
The Child Protection Services is unconstitutional because it deprives people of their rights, and punishes parents severely, without the highest level of Due Process. The role of CPS should be performed by private citizens and private charities.
Government should insert itself only when laws are broken. As for the pseudo laws of the Family Code that CPS relies on for its authority, those statutes should be expunged (or rewritten in the context of criminal law) for the same reason that CPS should be eliminated — because they allow the severe punishment of parents without the highest levels of Due Process.
bluestrength11 08.30.08 at 12:41 am
I want everyone here to actually take a look at the facts. There is evidence that sexual abuse has occurred at the YFZ Ranch, the religion teaches that everyone must submit to the whims of one man, who delagates these to the “trusted” men who then run the show. The children know nothing of the outside world except what the adults of this religion want them to know. Warrants are being handed down that are resulting in numerous men (more to come) being arrested for the exact same thing that CPS and law enforcement alleged. The conspiracy theories that are constantly being thrown about on this website and others like it are so that you will be sidetracked from the facts. The goal is to keep you from seeing the reality of how these children had to live on a daily basis. Those who control these websites want subterfuge so that the can continue to rant against the government, not actually discuss what kinds of horrible abuses the children had to live with on the YFZ Ranch and other compounds just like it. FLDS members are elated that this is occurring because this way they don’t have to answer the hard questions (mothers included). I know these events will show that abuses (many) were occurring.
rikitikitavi1 08.30.08 at 7:44 am
Hey blue, if the abuse is so horrible, why isn’t anyone coming forward voluntarily? In other cases of statutory rape, the State takes the position of “no complaining victim = no crime.” Why is this not being extended to the FLDS? It’s kind of hard for you to say they aren’t being persecuted when the actions of CPS & the State prove otherwise.
I’ve seen firsthand how these children “really” live. They live in clean, neat homes with loving parents, surrounded by neighbors who also love them & want to keep them from harm. They were not abused by their parents; they were only abused physically & mentally by CPS & its minions.
My advice to you is to put down Carolyn’s book & start asking HER the hard questions. Everything that she said about the people at the Ranch has been proven to be untrue. In fact, she finally had to admit under oath that she had never been to the Ranch. For example– Lie: She said the women & children were beaten daily at the Ranch. Fact: None of the women & children were found to have bruises, scars, black eyes, broken noses, or other signs of repeated physical abuse. And that’s just one of her many lies.
Kurt Schulzke 08.30.08 at 8:53 am
bluestrength –
You wrote:
“The children know nothing of the outside world except what the adults of this religion want them to know.”
How is this any different from any other parents? Baptists? Muslims? Catholics? All parents in America (except apparently FLDS ones) choose what their children will learn about the outside world. That’s what MPAA ratings and school curriculum committees are all about. Do you have a problem with this?
“Warrants are being handed down that are resulting in numerous men (more to come) being arrested for the exact same thing that CPS and law enforcement alleged.”
Circular reasoning here. Judges sign warrants brought to them by law enforcement. What’s your point?
“The conspiracy theories that are constantly being thrown about on this website and others like it are so that you will be sidetracked from the facts. The goal is to keep you from seeing the reality of how these children had to live on a daily basis.”
No author who has contributed on this blog has ever suggested that none of the FLDS children has suffered abuse. My central contentions — which have been confirmed first by the Texas Supreme Court and most recently by CPS through its growing list of “nonsuits”, 253 at last count — is that none of the FLDS children was in such danger as to justify emergency removal and very few of them is in such danger as to to justify continuing CPS intervention in their family life.
I have also contended from the beginning that the raid on the YFZ Ranch was motivated primarily by religious, anti-FLDS hysteria on par with the hysteria that produced witch burning 400 years ago in Massachusetts.
Finally, you wrote:
“Those who control these websites want subterfuge so that they can continue to rant against the government, not actually discuss what kinds of horrible abuses the children had to live with on the YFZ Ranch and other compounds just like it. ”
I don’t think “ranting against the government” is a fair description of my activities here. And I don’t want “subterfuge”. I want facts. You’ve provided none. If you have evidence that contradicts the Supreme Court and now CPS itself, please share it with us.
Kurt Schulzke 08.30.08 at 8:54 am
p.s. Yes, I know that parents are NOT involved in setting MPAA ratings. But they use those ratings — often foolishly — in deciding what movies their children can watch.
Bob 08.30.08 at 2:12 pm
bluestrength11: It is well documented that Jews mutilate the genitals of their young boys at 8 days of age. In Orthodox Judaism, the mohel actually puts his mouth on the penis of the boy whose genitals have just been mutilated. Where are you and your Gestapo goons? Quick, put on your Jack Boots! Take your dirty minds and rush into Jewish homes and rescue those little boys.
Say, what religion are you bluestrength11? Tell us a little about yourself like your pal TBM? BTW, Is he in the cubicle right next to you?
jj - a desert critter 08.30.08 at 4:27 pm
bluestrength11 { 08.30.08 at 12:41 am }
not actually discuss what kinds of horrible abuses the children had to live with on the YFZ Ranch and other compounds just like it. FLDS members are elated that this is occurring because this way they don’t have to answer the hard questions (mothers included). I know these events will show that abuses (many) were occurring.
From the heart the mouth speaketh. Did someone just turn on the lights at your compound?
Knowledge comes from direct experience. Were you there? Do you really know? Is the mirror of life blinking back at you too?
Jeny 08.30.08 at 5:12 pm
Nah, jj desert critter, we’ve just got us another no-nothing troll taking up space in Mr. Shulske’s blog.
What’s new, huh?
Keep the faith and stay proud. Lots of Americans support you and your families.
God Bless,
Jeny
Bob 08.31.08 at 12:13 am
Come on TBM, tell us which tribe you belong to. Maybe the Alabama-Coushatta? Once you confirm, I’ll be happy to list all the problems including child abuse that are going on with your tribe and on your reservation. Then, maybe, someone will ask you why you’re throwing rocks at the FLDS when you live in such a glass hogan.
Bob 09.01.08 at 7:56 pm
There really should be a study done of the psychology of those who are persecuting the FLDS and those such as Bluestrength11 and TBM.
I’ve flippantly referred to them as cat ladies sans cats, but I believe there really may be some deep psychological problems with some of these persecutors that have some similarities with what we see in cases of Munchausen by proxy syndrome.
As others have written, much of the persecution seems to have taken on aspects of the Salem Witchcraft hysteria.
Interestingly, the Witchcraft hysteria of Salem was started by a black woman named Tituba (some minor sources say she was a Carib or Arawak Indian), and the present hysteria has apparently been caused by a black woman named Rozita.
I don’t necessarily draw any conclusions from this, at least not any that I can explore in a short post, but I did want to point it out.
The larger question is why did so many people believe both Tituba and Rozita? Is there something about Tituba and Rozita and their lies that are especially compelling to a certain type of person, such that they are believed even when the stories are so outrageous? Oh, and factor in the Duke rape case and also Tawana Brawley.
How do we keep people who are so easily believed by certain others from harming innocent people in this age of mass communications when they can lie from a distance and whip up hysteria that spreads through several states?
Jeny 09.01.08 at 8:28 pm
Jeny { 08.31.08 at 6:11 pm } Bob { 08.31.08 at 12:13 am } Come on TBM, tell us which tribe you belong to. Maybe the Alabama-Coushatta? Once you confirm, I’ll be happy to list all the problems including child abuse that are going on with your tribe and on your reservation. Then, maybe, someone will ask you why you’re throwing rocks at the FLDS when you live in such a glass hogan.
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What? Expecting TBM to be honest here and admit he is in absolutely NO position to throw stones at the FLDS?
Not gonna happen. Not in a month of Sundays. Not once in a blue moon. Try never.
TBM doesn’t have what it takes. Hypocrisy is his name.
But….nice try. Can’t fault you for trying.
Best,
Jeny
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“Waiting for moderation”.
Ummmm….exactly *what* is objectionable here? I don’t get it.
MGK 09.01.08 at 10:15 pm
Please delete all record of me and comments from your site!
Thx,
Mike
Bob 09.02.08 at 7:42 am
I just discovered that TBM has his own blog, and over there he’s now trying to plant a rumor that the FLDS were going to build ovens to get rid of people they don’t like.
What next? Lampshades made from human skin?
Funny how this guy has so much time to spend on trying to whip up hysterics, and funny how he won’t tell us which Indian tribe he belongs to, so that we can start posting things about his tribe and the reservation where he says he was born. What a phony and disgusting bag of wind.
The guy really needs some psychiatric help.
Jeny 09.02.08 at 11:48 am
Bob { 09.02.08 at 7:42 am } I just discovered that TBM has his own blog, and over there he’s now trying to plant a rumor that the FLDS were going to build ovens to get rid of people they don’t like.
What next? Lampshades made from human skin?
Funny how this guy has so much time to spend on trying to whip up hysterics, and funny how he won’t tell us which Indian tribe he belongs to, so that we can start posting things about his tribe and the reservation where he says he was born. What a phony and disgusting bag of wind.
The guy really needs some psychiatric help.
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And I supposed he has all the documentation in the world to back up these (false and wild) claims—the same way he demands we back up our claims. Right?
Of course not. ROFLMAO.