Judge Walther: Natalie Malonis will continue with Teresa Jeffs

Ooops….she and Merrianne are CPS/Judge Walther’s “trophies”.

Add to that the fact Ken Isenberg is representing the “church”. Factor in how that reflects what the “strategy” could be.

more random thoughts on “strategy”;

The burden for state time addressing the issue is shouldered walther, malonis, co-counsel Susan Hays, Angie Voss… and I’m sure Childress in the background.

I’m sure they wasted more time on CYA for the problems than Isenberg & Futrell did forcing them to prepare and rule on it.

Wasn’t this Malonis’ own motion to remove herself? Sounds like she set up her own straw man, and forced the FLDS to fight it. I call that dishonest and underhanded.

Malonis’ motion was the result of Teresa / Annette’s letter to the judge. Malonis, as Teresa’s AAL had a hot potato on her hands if she did nothing.

“The FLDS are intent on making this a case of the oppressive state versus a persecuted religion.”

And the records show…

Judge Walthers spent over an hours in her chambers yesterday alone with Theresa Jeffs without attorneys, Just her and Theresa.
The judge didnt make her ruling until after that.
Natalie Malonis also made the point in court, that Isenburg had made malicous comments about her past and her divorce, which werent true.
Ive read the so called divorce case and custody case, but I also know, divorce and custody can get very malicous between parents. Each Parent will the accuse the other of abuse, drugs, alcholism, adultry, you name it, adults will use it against the other.

I dont think anyone, not even Malonis, was arguing that there werent other attorneys who could adequately rep TJ. The issue is: can a parent or entity with adverse interests be permitted to control the legal representation of a child alleged abuse victim?

And, by the way, Walther could have removed Isenberg and Futrell once the conflict was established. By allowing them to remain for the hearing and be subject to examination under oath, she created a more complete record of the improper influence. Walther did,in effect, disqualify both Futrell and Isenberg by her ruling.

Abby, are you saying Malonis didn’t let her sons sleep on the floor littered with dog feces? Are you saying Malonis didn’t physically assault her exhuband’s wife? Are you calling those people liars?

youre welcome Abby

Jeny - are you that gullible or do you have something personal against Malonis?

I will give my opinion for its worth of Natalie Malonis representing Teresa Jeffs. Natalie Malonis is representing CPS and not Teresa Jeffs. FLDS is a religious orginization that cares deeply for its members. Therefore , its wants an attorney that Teresa Jeffs can trust.

I don’t understand why you, Kurt, have a hard time understanding why Teresa wants Malonis replaced. You’ve had a complete turn around since your little tete a tete with Malonis -

If Teresa were your daughter and Malonis was saying that she was sexually abused by someone, had a child from that abuse, and was lying through her teeth about the whole thing, and she said this on Nancy Grace and to any reporter that would give her the time of day, would YOU be thrilled to have Malonis representing your daughter? She did NOT respect Teresa or Teresa’s right to privacy about very personal matters….

And you don’t get it????

What did Malonis threaten you with, Kurt? A lawsuit or something about defamation of character?

I don’t get it.

It could also be, TBM, that Kurt has been threatened with some legal action unless he backs down. He used to be as indignant as the rest of us about Malonis’ treatment of Teresa, but now he appears to be ‘on her side’ and wondering why the FLDS have a problem with her….?!?!?!? Good grief.

If a parent/grandparent can’t figure out that Malonis is no one they would want representing their child/grandchild based upon Malonis very unprofessional behavior in the press and toward her client, then I guess there’s no hope for that person.

Chai,

What does a parent or grandparent have to do with it? They have no standing to challenge her position as an AAL.

Somehow I don’t see Kurt backing down - first, nothing he published was out of line (his position on the FLDS issue is dead wrong, but not libelous), second, Malonis is a public figure.

I think that he talked to her, and since he understands the law, he is aware of what she is doing.

While he may disagree with her methods, that is strategy, and each lawyer has to determine what works for them and their client.

Chai Tea { 09.05.08 at 5:37 pm } I don’t understand why you, Kurt, have a hard time understanding why Teresa wants Malonis replaced. You’ve had a complete turn around since your little tete a tete with Malonis -

If Teresa were your daughter and Malonis was saying that she was sexually abused by someone, had a child from that abuse, and was lying through her teeth about the whole thing, and she said this on Nancy Grace and to any reporter that would give her the time of day, would YOU be thrilled to have Malonis representing your daughter? She did NOT respect Teresa or Teresa’s right to privacy about very personal matters….

And you don’t get it????

What did Malonis threaten you with, Kurt? A lawsuit or something about defamation of character?

I don’t get it.
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Well said! *clap, clap, clap*

Tom,

It doesn’t matter - the AAL is appointed by the Court, and in the best interest of the child.

LOL, but I know it is driving y’all crazy…

Ain’t life grand…

SKK… If you will google those ‘lies’ you will find them. The papers and Nancy Grace were full of Malonis broadcasting that her client (unnamed at that point, but the ‘daughter of Warren Jeffs’) was a victim of sexual abuse, had a child that was supposed to be hidden/claimed with/by another FLDS family.

TBM, you yourself have said that Teresa, being 17, is an adult in the eyes of the criminal courts, but yet you stick to the technical, pedantic notion that at the same time she’s a child in family court.

Do you not see the contradiction? How do you explain this discrepancy in views of a persons age being the single indicator of sufficient maturity to make decisions?

33 SKK { 09.05.08 at 9:52 pm } Jeny -

I think you’ve answered my question. You must have something personal against Malonis since you continue to “stray” from the truth in your Malonis bashing.

Malonis was saying that she was sexually abused by someone, had a child from that abuse

Malonis did not say that.

lying through her teeth about the whole thing

Where are the lies?

she said this on Nancy Grace and to any reporter that would give her the time of day

That did not happen. However, TJ did make those allegations, probably based on false information provided by the church lawyers.
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Please stop attributing ChaiTea’s words to me. You are quoting ME as if I said any of those things, I did not.

I simply agreed with Chai’s posting. Big difference.

As for Ms. Malone, I live in Georgia. I have never met her–not in person, over the telephone, over the internet, or over e-mail. I have NEVER made her acquaintance, so I don’t understand why you make that long leap from a tall building and assume that I do know her. I have said here repeatedly on this blog that I DO NOT KNOW NATALIE MALONIS.

I have nothing against her on a personal level.

My animus (look up the word, sweets) towards Ms. Malone is based PURELY on HER BEHAVIOR towards Teresa Jeffs and her unethical behavior throughout this case.

If you can’t handle this or don’t believe this, then that is YOUR problem. Not mine.

I second what Jeny said. I don’t know Malonis, but I don’t know a rattlesnake either. I would turn my back on neither. All the information I have about them is from what I’ve gleaned and is also based on their own reputation and behavior.

One does not have to be personally attacked to recognize deceit and intent to harm in someone else.

I googled — I read Nancy Grace transcripts. No mention of “daughter of Warren Jeffs” or sex abuse or mention of anything that sounds like it’s related to TJ. I think you folks are confusing what the media said and what Malonis said.

Sorry for attributing the post to the wrong person. My goodness that’s a strong reaction.

SKK and blue prove:

Q:What is the difference between God and a lawyer?
A: God doesn’t think He’s a lawyer

SKK, you forgot to mention THE POINT of “Nancy” Malonis appearance on Disgrace. For anyone who needs me to point out the obvious, she in essence said: “I AGREE WITH CPS”

By the way, it was Natalie Malonis and the judge that created this nightmare, not the FLDS leadership. Who was present at this last hearing? No FLDS leadership was present, only lawyers. It is a very simple matter, and would cost the state nothing additional to give Teresa another ad-litem, but Malonis fits right in with CPS and Walthers agenda! It is in the State’s best interest to keep Malonis which is why they would spend $1000’s more dollars to keep her there.

Now Malonis can act for Teresa as if she’s secretly confiding in her, unknown to the public because it’s attorney-client privileged. Teresa has chosen to not talk to Natalie, but who will know the difference since the “child” can’t speak for herself.

There is no mystery here, just further persecution of the State.

What personal insults, Kurt? Just because I said I don’t know where you are coming from? I don’t.

What continues to bother me is that the way Walther rules on matters, the FLDS never has a point. Ever.

Later, other courts say that the FLDS DID have a point, but Walther never sees it.

I confess that I could easily not see the best course for Teresa Jeffs and that Natalie is the best Attorney in this matter for her but it’s just one more ruling by Walther that shows her absolutely totalitarian bent. Her rulings are the kind you expect in cases where the “fix” is called in from above, such as in cases involving US citizens in unfriendly and totalitarian venues.

rikki-

You’re mistaken, and even if it was Malonis who said the girl was a sex abuse victim .. how is that unethical if the discclosure was in a judicial proceeding (not in the press) and the purpose of the disclosure was to obtain orders of protection?

Wasnt efiling mandatory? Weren’t most of the cases under the massive 2902 ..wasn’t everyone required to notice all parties under TRCP? Where is the sanctionable conduct?

“Where is the sanctionable conduct?”
Gooood question!

To rehash:

Natalie recieved some unsubstanciated info from LE and the book “Stolen Intelligence”, and without even ASKING her CLIENT, or out of FEAR that her client was not telling her the truth, stated audibly in court that she was a sexual abuse victim , had a child, and that the child was being cared for by someone else. She did not get this information from her CLIENT. And “in her best interest” asked for an order to “protect” her by putting special restrictions against Teresa’s mother.

And then THE SAME DAY gets on Nancy Grace and basically tells them that the STATE SHOULD WIN against the wishes of HER CLIENT. Client? Client? What client? It is like having Angie VOSS as your AAL.

Intimidation? Are you SERIOUS? DID YOU FORGET? NATALIE asked for and recieved a Restraining order against WILLIE because Teresa was told she had the OPTION of getting rid of the Nancy Grace star? Who is intimidating who?

For all those that say Theresa is a virgin and never had a child where is the document from a doctor saying that cuz i would like to see it so would other people so until i and alot of other people see it i wont believe she didnt have a baby i think she does this is all about power for the FLDS men having Natalie on the case scares them most likely one of the strongest women they have come across she doesnt buy into the bit about being in a harem to get to heaven

SKK, you are [misstating the facts]. I read those pleadings myself (thanks to Malonis serving everyone on the e-filing list) so I know what she was alleging.

Tom show me the overwhelming evidence of her lies. PLEASE. I gotta see this

Kurt,

My allegory of a rattlesnake was to show that one does not have to be personally acquainted with a person to recognize danger - someone basically accused Jeny of having a prejudice against Malonis because of a personal relationship with her. Jeny explained that she didn’t, and I expanded on that explanation that as I did.

If you want to ban me for that, so be it.

Chai Tea { 09.06.08 at 4:43 pm } Kurt,

My allegory of a rattlesnake was to show that one does not have to be personally acquainted with a person to recognize danger - someone basically accused Jeny of having a prejudice against Malonis because of a personal relationship with her. Jeny explained that she didn’t, and I expanded on that explanation that as I did.
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Yes, I was accused of having a personal relationship with Natalie Malonis–after they quoted Chai Tea and attributed Chai’s words to me, no less.

Here is the post where the accusation was made by SKK. Note the name, date and time stamp. And then note who it was addressed to. Me.
____________________________________________
33 SKK { 09.05.08 at 9:52 pm } Jeny -

I think you’ve answered my question. You must have something personal against Malonis since you continue to “stray” from the truth in your Malonis bashing. ”
_______________________________

I have explained time and time again. I live in GEORGIA (which Kurt himself can confirm). I have lived her for 40 years. There is NO reason for me to have EVER met Natalie Malonis. Ever. Not in person. Not on the phone. Not on e-mail. Not over the internet. NOT EVER.

I do not know Natalie Malonis personally. I do not know her, Sam I am. I do not know her here or there. I do not know her over there. I do not know her in Texas or Georgia. I do know now her there or here. I DO NOT KNOW HER, Sam I am.

I base my (admittedly harsh) judgements of Ms. Malonis on her very public, very unethical (in my opinion) behavior. In addition to public documents related to her personal life that I have read and that cast her in a very negative light.

The DEMONSTRABLY FALSE accusations that I have some kind of personal relationship with Ms. Malonis, and therefore an ax to grind with Ms. Malonis have grown tiresome.

I appreciate the assistance that Chai was attempting to lend and I think you’ve really overblown Chai’s post and read things into it that weren’t there, Kurt.

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If you want to ban me for that, so be it.
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I hope you won’t ban Chai nor myself–I’ve seen you look the other way at far more egregious behavior here–without the single threat of a ban. I don’t think either of us deserve it, but that of course is my opinion.

Jeny

Here’s the transcript from the May 30 hearing where everyone is saying Malonis said TJ had a baby and was hiding it. If the embed code doesnt work, hopefully Kurt can fix it.

may 30

Malonis asks the CPS lawyer if every child has a parent identified and he hems and haws and doesn’t really answer. Malonis says:

“Okay. I do have a particular concern. I have one client who there is — there is some suspicion that she has a child and another — another person in the State’s custody is caring for that child. And that’s — that’s an issue where the DNA testing would, of course, clarify that.”

Walther asks the CPS lawyer what to do … more hemming and hawing. Walther asks Malonis what to do, and Malonis says she can narrow it down but doesnt have specifics. Walther tells her to stay after the hearing to address it because it is not applicable to all of the children.

The question was asked as to why the FLDS leadership would put so much effort into trying to have M removed.

I’m not FLDS and can’t speak for them. However, if I were them, I might answer with the following partial answer off the top of my head:

1. Teresa is one of us and we don’t abandon our own.
2. We understand, now, that if we sit on our rights we’ll lose our rights. Thus,we want to be very sure that we have a paper trail to preserve some appealable issues.
3. We want the paper trail for possible legal action we may bring.
4. We are no longer going to let others trample on our rights, and we’ll now fight back in every direction to protect our rights.
5. As with so many legal matters, public opinion is important and we want to make sure the public is aware of this matter.

SKK: You forget that Natalie visited in Teresa in her foster home and accused her of having a baby and hiding it.

Alleging something in a pleading as part of a judicial process is different than making an announcement to the media, yes?

She came right out & called her client a liar. She failed to file a motion to seal right off the bat, even though she knew she was “alleging” very sensitive information. (She only filed one when the heat turned on HER.) She knew it would be leaked to the press & never attempted to correct the stories which reported she believed her client had a baby, despite her client saying otherwise. Her duty as an attorney (even as an ad litem, especially considering her client was about to turn 17) was to represent her client’s wishes & tell CPS to PROVE what they were saying, instead of saying “Okay CPS, I believe you & not my client.” Her filing should have alleged HER CLIENT’S POSITION, not CPS’ or her own. Unethical & unprofessional.

rikki - you’re wrong on the facts.

So, here’s the list of accusations you’ve flung so far, SKK:

Jeny - has some personal connection Natalie Malonis, which is why she hates her. (ROFLMAO)

rikki - is just “wrong on the facts”

Thomas Ferguson - “Making up stuff that did not happen”

Pliggy - you accuse of being “insane” and a “bully” because he is FLDS

And that’s just the few I found in this thread alone, in about 5 minutes of glancing through your posts.

Are you the fun poster?

Jeny -

I apologize for attributing the wrong post to you and I apologize for any conclusions I drew as a result of my error.

Tom get your facts straight before you run around spewing garbage out

SKK { 09.07.08 at 3:01 pm } Jeny -

I apologize for attributing the wrong post to you and I apologize for any conclusions I drew as a result of my error.
================

Thank you.

Jeny { 09.07.08 at 5:33 pm } 83 Christina { 09.07.08 at 4:50 pm } Why are you so determined to believe the FLDS which has shown to hide the truth and lie and not anyone else I for one have lived in foster care when I was 13 until 17 they are not as bad as you think I would chose foster care over what happened to me with my parents any day of the week I to thought they were bad until I saw first hand the difference between outside my parents house compared to what my parents did to me and my brother
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I’m guessing this little girl would have chose to stay with her God-given parents, Robert Scovil and Evelyn Carter, instead of being redistributed to her State-provided parents, Wendy Osborne and her husband.

Unfortunately, it’s too late for her at all. She’s dead. D-E-A-D.

Her State-selected “mother” killed her.

She took her two adopted 3 year olds into the house from the car and took a nap while they played–UNSUPERVISED–and baby Jessica was trapped in her car seat in a swealtering car. When she was finally found 2 hours later, her core body temperature was over 110 F.

Jessica’s God-given parents want the State-selected “mother” charged with her killing.

So do I.

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http://onlineathens.com/stories/090508/new_328706107.shtml

The birth parents of a 9-month-old Jackson County girl who died of heat stroke Tuesday want her foster mother prosecuted for leaving the little girl locked in a minivan for more than two hours, according to the couple’s attorney.

But friends of foster mother Wendy Osborne came out Thursday in support of the 29-year-old, pointing out that she has fostered several children over the past five years without problems and saying that what happened to the child, Jessica Scovil, was a tragic accident.

Jackson County sheriff’s detectives are waiting to decide whether to charge Osborne, who lives on Georgia Highway 334 near Nicholson, until they receive the results of toxicology tests, said Chief Deputy David Cochran.

An autopsy performed at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Crime Lab in Decatur confirmed that Jessica died from heat stroke.

“The next step, I guess, for the parents, is to talk to the district attorney and to ask him to move forward with charges on this case,” said Crandall Heard, attorney for Jessica’s birth parents, Robert Scovil and Evelyn Carter. “That’s all they can do as they work to get through this.”

Deputies and emergency medical personnel were called to the Osborne home Tuesday afternoon, after Wendy Osborne found Jessica unconscious in the minivan.

Osborne told sheriff’s investigators that she came home from a doctor’s appointment shortly before 3 p.m., unloaded two adopted 3-year-old girls from the van and went inside. Once inside, Osborne lay down for a nap while the other two children played. She woke up about 5 p.m., Cochran said, and rushed outside to find Jessica unresponsive in her car seat.

Osborne’s doctor had prescribed medication that may have contributed to her disorientation and drowsiness, Cochran said. She was sick for several days before she went to the doctor, he said.

Some people who know Osborne and her husband see them as dedicated foster parents who consider it their mission to help children, said Edna Stroud, who owns Creative Kids day-care center where Jessica spent some days this summer.

“I have the utmost respect for the Osborne family,” Stroud said. “I remember thinking when I interviewed Mrs. Osborne before Jessica stayed with us that she was really choosey about who was keeping Jessica. She acted more like a parent, really, than a foster parent. She was very patient, and very loving towards the children, you could see they had a passion for what they were doing.”

Scovil and Carter lost custody of Jessica early this year, but were close to regaining guardianship, Heard said.

A custody hearing was scheduled for Sept. 16 in Jackson County Juvenile Court, and Heard expected that Jessica would have been returned to her parents at that time.

“This mom is a good lady,” Heard said. “She’s done everything I have asked her to do to get her child back, and so has the father. I could not have had two people do more to get their child back. … If there had been cooperation on both sides, we could have had this cleared up weeks ago. But we weren’t getting any cooperation, so we were having to go back to court.”

Heard, a public defense attorney serving Barrow, Jackson and Banks counties, would not say why Scovil and Carter lost custody of Jessica, but he did say that it wasn’t related to any type of criminal charges, substance abuse or physical abuse.

“(Division of Family and Children Services officials) were telling my clients that, ‘We don’t think they’re able to take care of their child right now,’ ” Heard said. “Instead of sending her home, they sent her to a home where she eventually died.”

Calls to Robert Scovil’s home were not immediately returned Thursday. Calls to Wendy Osborne’s home went unanswered

Christina, I’m glad that your time in the ’system’ was helpful to you…but it is not the same for everyone. There are published statistics that have shown that CPS/foster care is not a shining example of how to safely raise a child.

Yes, there is a time to remove a child from an environment, such as in your case, and I don’t believe that those of us posting as opposed to foster care would deny that that an an alternative available to the well being of a child facing REAL abuse.

What I am vigorously opposed to is a towns-worth of children removed from their loving families on the basis of a lie.

I don’t know how long you have been following this story, so maybe you didn’t see the women and children being herded on buses to be taken from their homes. Mothers who were away from the ranch at the time of the kidnapping were not allowed to join their children.

CPS’s own rules state that the alleged PERPETRATORS are to be removed from the home when possible, not the children/victims. The men of the Ranch offered to leave the ranch so the women and children could stay, but that wasn’t good for CPS. They wanted these beautiful children and they wanted the $$ that would come for their re-sale.

The Texas Supreme Court has ruled that CPS did not follow their own rules for removal of the children and therefore the children had to be returned. Walther overstepped her authority by approving the removal.

It is of GREAT concern that a small town in Texas acted without regard to the law and traumatized and abused young children for no other reason than that it doesn’t like the religion the families practice.

This ranch and its inhabitants were committing no acts of terrorism, they were living quietly and peacefully, worshipping in the way they believe (which is a constitutional right), and Texas law enforcement and CPS acted on a KNOWN AT THAT TIME LIE to steal and terrorize these young children, going so far as to separate siblings from each other, and to pull screaming nursing babies from their mother’s arms. For what reason? There was no evidence of physical abuse!

According to the testimony of the Mental Health Workers brought into the holding pens, the abusers of these women and children were CPS workers ~ and they got away with it. As far as I know, no charges have been brought, but I hope and pray that some are!!! The stories that have come out of those days about the treatment of the women and children by the CPS workers is something that should never be allowed to happen again - in Texas or anywhere else in this United States.

And all of it happened even though there was no evidence or act of abuse committed by these parents. No children had broken bones or have been shown to have been sexually abused. This has all been done for religious persecution.

THAT is what I am opposed to. And CPS has been the driving force behind this.